DRT

Kevin unless you are constantly climbing multi-leader trees, how does the DRT help make limb walking either safer or more efficient? Say you have a single stem tree for example and a hand full of isolated limbs to access....how does climbing DRT help at all ?
 
Fairfield said:
... It would be a very bold statement to say that trees are a softer or more friendly to rope...
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Maybe so, but I will stand by it. So much of tree climbing equipment and system design is based on the fact that trees are easily damaged by our ropes, not vice versa. I can't think of an industrial equivalent of all the flexible, rounded branch structures we encounter as arborists. Personally, I don't worry about damaging my rope on a sharp piece of bark but a bur on a metal structure....
 
Reg said:
Kevin unless you are constantly climbing multi-leader trees, how does the DRT help make limb walking either safer or more efficient? Say you have a single stem tree for example and a hand full of isolated limbs to access....how does climbing DRT help at all ?
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That's rare around here. Pretty much all the trees here are either spread out or dense. Just a little bit of difference in the angles of the ropes goes a long way toward balance. Also you know when you are walking out on a limb and there is a branch right in the middle of the limb walk that is to weak to climb over, you can't go through it. You can't tie into it and you can't tie into the limb you are walking on to pas around your line.

With DRT you just go right on through. My canopy access has Definitely improved.
 
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Practical Questions:

1) Is one line the primary and the second a kind of positioning line? I presume the foot and knee ascenders are on the "primary. Do you stop and remove slack from the secondary line? Do you switch from time to time?

2) I'm guessing that one uses two TIPs such that the two lines are angled about 20 - 30 degrees and you traverse between them as needed (VRIG?). But then TIP choice kind of determines and also restricts where you can go. How far apart and in general how do you choose TIP location?

3) During ascent, each intervening branch requires you to unclip one of the lines to get around it. Do you lanyard in during that process? Couldn't you end up
with one line trapped by a branch below where you are going at which point it is no longer useful?

4) Descent I guess takes two hands. Do you miss having a hand free?

Maybe too many questions but we need a video tutorial or something.
 
Definitely a video. Maybe I should lanyard in when I go around branches but that is a bit of a big step for me right now. when I pass one rope through a redirect I am momentarily SRT. I am stationary and secure though. For the comp I was practicing staying DRT the entire time and it was stretching my patience.

I use both lines interchangeably. Sometimes they are parallel but I have found that by alternating redirects and I use a lot of redirects, they usually have a little separation.

I can descend with one hand with no problem. Descent has been the least of my worries

My ascent is not smooth at the moment. Still trying to get that smooth. But in the scheme of things if it takes 15 seconds or a minute at the beginning of the climb its no big loss. I try to route every tree that I go downhill as much as possible.
 
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treebing said:
That's rare around here. Pretty much all the trees here are either spread out or dense. .
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But if that were the case, as is for many trees in various regions, what would you do i.e. have 2 lines up to the same TIP, just for the sake of being DRT the whole time ? If you slip you're still going to fall and swing. So does that mean you'll pull out a lanyard, and be tied in 3 times?

Same goes for removals, where the tree is ever decreasing in size as the job progresses. Obstructing limbs in the way is no longer an issue because you can just cut them. Canopy access and maneuverability is obviously less important if you have the room to just cut off whole limbs, or incorporate rigging. At what point on a removal do you discard the DRT ?
 
I am throwing one line and setting two lines with one pull. I have had trouble once where I could not fit two ropes through the same crotch. On several occasions when I have reached that crotch, I have passed one line higher and kept one line lower. I have had greater confidence with iffy redirects if my other line stays below and bomber. This has lead to better positioning.
 
I discard the DRT when I'm in the spar. Until then I am cutting like a mad man and not worrying about my lanyard as much

What I am discovering is that two ropes is not as much a PIA as I thought it would be. Some people carry 20 foot lanyards which is crazy to me. Lots of ways to not slip and fall and not swing with DRT. Instead of lanyarding in you can pass your one of your lines around whatever you would have lanyarded into to much the same effect.
 
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Reg said:
What situation did you have in mind ?
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I was speaking towards the fact that mot everything we are tied to in a tree gives or flexes all the time. good point about production, but at the same time thats why they are new guys and in training right? We dont expect them to be blowing out trees right out of the gate. And sure even for a old hand at the game it would take time and practice and sure patience.
 
DSMc said:
Maybe so, but I will stand by it. So much of tree climbing equipment and system design is based on the fact that trees are easily damaged by our ropes, not vice versa. I can't think of an industrial equivalent of all the flexible, rounded branch structures we encounter as arborists. Personally, I don't worry about damaging my rope on a sharp piece of bark but a bur on a metal structure....
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Again, I dont know of any climber that does not place a COD in the system or solid edge pro to avoid metal edge contact. So how does your statement apply?
Not trying to place your statements as not having to hold any fact to it just trying to see how you are getting your information. Do you climb in the industrial setting as well? And have you given any of this a honest go in order to form a solid opinion that others can take?
 
treebing said:
I am throwing one line and setting two lines with one pull. I have had trouble once where I could not fit two ropes through the same crotch. On several occasions when I have reached that crotch, I have passed one line higher and kept one line lower. I have had greater confidence with iffy redirects if my other line stays below and bomber. This has lead to better positioning.
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Please go back and answer the first question in my earlier post. Thanks.

I understand having backup for iffy redis but don't see how having a second in-line tie offers better positioning, unless it were coming from another direction, which isn't always available.
 
treebing said:
I discard the DRT when I'm in the spar. Until then I am cutting like a mad man and not worrying about my lanyard as much

What I am discovering is that two ropes is not as much a PIA as I thought it would be. Some people carry 20 foot lanyards which is crazy to me. Lots of ways to not slip and fall and not swing with DRT. Instead of lanyarding in you can pass your one of your lines around whatever you would have lanyarded into to much the same effect.
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Yeah sorry I missed this part. Passing ropes around doesn't sound practical at all compared to an independent lanyard. Sorry.
 
I personally like drt in the event of equipment failure or human error (me screwing up). Like I have mentioned, I have had a moment of complacency that led to a fall that would not have happen with two lines. I am sure we could put a long lst up of climbers that have fallen to injury or death that could have been prevented with drt as well. How can that be argued in anyway?
 
Fairfield said:
I was speaking towards the fact that mot everything we are tied to in a tree gives or flexes all the time. good point about production, but at the same time thats why they are new guys and in training right? We dont expect them to be blowing out trees right out of the gate. And sure even for a old hand at the game it would take time and practice and sure patience.
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I just don't think any of it is practical or productive for new or old. I for one would soon lose work and recognition if I started incorporating DRT on every tree I climbed. Bet not alone.
 
Reg said:
Yeah sorry I missed this part. Passing ropes around doesn't sound practical at all compared to an independent lanyard. Sorry.
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Count the clicks it's faster.

You of all people don't new to worry about name or recognition. My clients don't care how I climb as long as I don't wind up injured or dead and the job gets done. I have no competition around here that can do what I do. one rope or two. I haven't lost much time due to DRT except here on the buzz.
 
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Fairfield said:
Again, I dont know of any climber that does not place a COD in the system or solid edge pro to avoid metal edge contact. So how does your statement apply?...
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I am referring to the entire working environment. Every piece of hard structure on a bridge, building or whatever is hostile to a rope under tension and a potential threat. In a tree you can reroute, drag or pull your line across pretty much any part of it without fear of it damaging your line. That is what I mean by being rope friendly.
 
Reg, I dont think he is "forcing" anything to work for him. Im sure if he felt it was a waste of his time he would walk from it. same as you are doing with this for you in your mind. There is nothing wrong with either in this case.
 
Yes Reg, in general I go down the easiest road possible. I am forcing myself to learn new techniques but I see no disadvantage in that.
The first time I ran a speed line I lost the whole day. Now, I know when it will work and when it won't, and speedlines make me money when I use them.
When I switched from 2:1 climbing to 1:1 climbing I lost a lot of time initially. Then it made me much faster and effecient.
I used to never wear chainsaw protection. Now, I do. and who knows if one day they will save me. I decided I don't care to find out.
I need to keep this work interesting or I go crazy. It makes a lot of sense to me. Anything that gives me more options, more stability, and security, I am likely to stick with. This seems after just a couple of weeks as something I will be doing long term. I don't think I will feel like I'm forcing it. But it's still early. I have a lot of bugs to work out yet but none seem insurmountable.
 
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