DRT

Just kidding around with Kevin and his DRT climbing. The "back-up" RR is like having a second point of attachment, or lanyard, if you will. Just trying to push a laugh into this thread. :)
 
If you mean Static as in no cambium burn and dynamic as need a cambium saver then that is exactly what I mean. If you meant the amount of stretch in the rope, don't get me started on the lack of consistency on how they sre labeled between vendors and end use of rope.
 
John_KAYS said:
I got it oceans. I laughed.
Kevin left his short lanyard on the ground, and took his 150 footer.
Click to expand...
I laughed out loud at the photo of the "short line" on the ground.

Monkey, this is one reason I think % elongation is a far better measure with terms like 'low', 'medium', and 'high'. Choose how much elongation you want in your system. Leave static and dynamic for the configuration. It just makes more sense.
 
Ahhh, may have helped if I read the last prior to that..... long day of dealing with people that dont think it is safe to work on rope......... after they had contracted us to... work.... on.... rope...???? I will gladly go back and forth on single and double after that!!!
 
All good, Fairfield. I looked at the first photo Kevin posted for a little while, imagining it was me in the tree. There's only one thing I keep coming to, which is sometimes I use my lanyard to hold my position while redirecting my main line. I wonder if could still find a way to set a redirect if my two lines weren't parallel. I guess I'd just carry my lanyard unless there were numerous features to stand in while redirecting one of the two lines.
 
Last edited:
This is a great thread. The thing about acronyms (and really all names) is that they take on a life of their own and don't really have to be totally self-explanatory. Today everyone knows what SRT and DdRT mean even if, as Kevin points out they are misnomers. (DdRT is a special case of SRT). Also once learned and in common usage, the original derivation is not important. Really who cares what IBM stood for? We know who they are.

But in the spirit of Treebing, I'll toss some thoughts into the ring.

The "T" in SRT, dDRT is for Technique and we know what that means: particular tools, particular configurations. In this spirit, let SRT stand as a Static Rope Technique and let Ddrt stand as a doubled-back Dynamic Rope Technique (which, by the way, will become a rarity in the future used only when mechanical advantage is needed, much like the RADS 3-to-1 is a special technique for , say, limb-walking.)

Now comes the DRT issue. Unlike SRT and dDRT, the meaning of DRT is a bit vague in arborist circles because it's rarely used and unfamiliar. What it's really about is redundancy. (In computer circles, they call it HA - high availability) Technically, a second doubled-back dynamic line could be paired with a single strand static line, two static lines can be paired, and a lanyard can be paired with any other technique - and they'd all be redundant or HA versions of the specific techniques.

So with the introduction of the word redundant, or its synonym, highly available, you can say, "today I am climbing with redundant SRT lines", or redundant Ddrt lines etc.

The salient point is SRT implies certain tie ins, certain redirects, certain tools (RW, HH, RR) - fine. That would be equally true with or without redundancy. Redundancy is an independent orthogonal attribute that can be combined with the various "rope techniques".
 
So, I am a new rec climber with lots of fears. I want to get to the point where my head says "I know with certainty I can count on the equipment". I'll still get the willies at 40 feet,
but I can say to myself, "that's just irrational phobia stuff, fuggeddaboudit. But then again I thought using redundant rope was kind of embarrassing, even though no one's looking.

Thanks to Kevin, I have been relieved of the feelings of shame. I have been joyously using two systems side by side.

Since I am not in production, I don't mind tending the second rope, and I'm just using a Gibbs kind of device (Petzl Microcender) with a normally slack tether. I find I can slide the Microcender easily up and down to be with me wherever I go. Yes it slow and something extra to fiddle with but man, I have piece of mind.

This is not so much about using saws and line cuts, it's about overcoming phobias.
 
Cool, everyone can have there own meanings. I no longer understand SRT to mean anything other than climbing on one single line. But that can be just me. Ddrt is a cool and good SRT method as is setting up an m method or belaying, or top roping, or lead climbing etc.

As for my lanyard. I should have kept it to keep my DRT experiment real. Unlike rope access work, I don't have a backup line and a mainline because in my system they are interchangeable, this means that when I get to a redirect I weight one line and position myself in order to pass the other line through the redirect.

I realized that alternating redirects is very efficient as I only have to manage one rope at a time.

It's kind of funny because I totally feel like I'm cheating when I do that because I am temporarily SRT as i pass the redirect. I need to work on my lanyard set up because I think i would rather lanyard into the line than the tree.
My speed has not been affected greatly but my options are much wider. My work positioning is phenomenal as people who regularly work DRT understand. I am finding it very fun.
 
Kevin,
Are both rope runners always under tension? If not have you done any drop test on rope runners?

Mick,
As as far as using the Petzl Microcender as a 2nd line or a Belay type devise, I would watch your fall factors on it. I'm not positive but seems i remember there being issues dropping a load on it, i think it will take the seath right off the rope causing a fall. again could be wrong.
 
AaronO said:
Kevin,
Are both rope runners always under tension? If not have you done any drop test on rope runners?

Mick,
As as far as using the Petzl Microcender as a 2nd line or a Belay type devise, I would watch your fall factors on it. I'm not positive but seems i remember there being issues dropping a load on it, i think it will take the seath right off the rope causing a fall. again could be wrong.
Click to expand...

You are right about the Microcender not being a Backup device. Stay away from that it will end bad.
 
Dropped a log on it. It slides at a pretty low weight. 500 lbs +-. I've dropped myself into it as well and its a pretty soft catch. No way to damage the rope.
 
Fairfield said:
You are right about the Microcender not being a Backup device. Stay away from that it will end bad.
Click to expand...

Thanks guys for warning about microcender. But I thought, since it is not a toothed cam, it would be pretty gentle.

I'm thinking of switching to a friction hitch and pinto,
which would be more useful for V-Rig style positioning.
 
http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/TwoRopes.htm

So, been thinking on the subject a bit. i am not climbing DRT necessarily for safety reasons. I am finding it quite efficient for moving through the tree and the ability to move through redirects and gain access to the ends of branches is great. There is a diagram in this post to how rock climbers use it. Which translates well to trees with lots of redirects. This is all tree specific. But it sometimes feels like I am steering a hang glider in the tree using two ropes. I am finding myself less on the tree and more on rope.
 
You are probably correct. But I have never been able to seamlessly switch back and forth between techniques.

When I changed from being a 2;1 SRT climber to a 1:1 SRT climber, I never was able to switch back and forth depending on the tree even though some trees probably would be easier 2:1.

Likewise now, since I have been working on my DRT system and how to deploy it effeciently, it is too much for me to switch back to a SRT mentality for one tree and than back to a DRT mentality for the next. It's just easier if I approach every tree with the same mindset.
It's still working out. I did my first large removal DRT yesterday. In good time.
 
treebing said:
Dropped a log on it. It slides at a pretty low weight. 500 lbs +-. I've dropped myself into it as well and its a pretty soft catch. No way to damage the rope.
Click to expand...

Kevin, yer talking about the Microcender yes? I have a minimal SRT ascent system based on a Microcender, I've climbed on it for 4 years, no problems. My understanding is also that it slides a short distance in a dynamic loading situation but does not damage the rope in any significant way. The cam will start to show wear on heavy dynamic loading. I think the issue with the Microcender is that Petzl warns against using it with a tether, some fall factor issues start to happen with a tether. The device itself is secure and rope friendly at least based on many hundreds of feet ascent I've done on it. I'm happy to be corrected on that. I think there is considerable confusion around devices like this, the warnings are more related to alpine and rock use where falls are expected. In 8+ years tree climbing I've never had a significant fall/dynamic loading situation happen to me, not to say it will never happen but no matter what gear or system we're on in a tree, if we do a serious fall onto the system it's going to hurt a lot at the very least. -AJ
 
The rope runner would work well as a back up. even during a fast decent if you let go, you come to a gradual stop not a sudden or abrupt stop (which is nice).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom