definition of a heritage tree

Before the era of everybody taking pictures all the time. I have another big oak in town that is over 500 years old defined by a core taken by Ohio State that I still take care of. It was 130' tall with similar trunk and canopy. Had to top that tree when it crushed a house but its still alive. We had many giant trees here and most are no longer here. Most blown apart. Not arboricultural ineptness as suggested by some, just Mother Nature's hand.

Here is mama nature doing its thing in my towns a week ago...

probably gonna have to resize my picts again :-(
 
pict 1

372447-DSCF1021.JPG
 

Attachments

  • 372447-DSCF1021.webp
    372447-DSCF1021.webp
    103.9 KB · Views: 63
pict 2. thought they'd doze the house but they seem to be trying to rebuild it for historical sake. Does protecting a perceived historical tree trump protecting an historical house...just sayin.

372448-DSCF1024.JPG
 

Attachments

  • 372448-DSCF1024.webp
    372448-DSCF1024.webp
    114.2 KB · Views: 67
fly swatter effect imo as it wasn't a giant tree. Last storm we had 2 client families that had to move out until the tree was removed and they took up residence in motels for a week.
 
I would guess that tree was standing there long before the subdivision and house was built. The roots appeared to give way on the side of the street and sidewalk.

I would speculate that construction of the street and sidewalk may have been the demise of its ultimate failure.

Beautiful tree, and house. Shame for all concerned.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I hear that , is the word Heritage being watered down ? example for me was three different contractors asked me to condemn a American Elm in Villanova Pa. , beautiful tree , no dead limbs . I couldn't do it . They needed an ISA certified Arborist to give cause for removal . I know Elms , I started my career wrecking dead Elms in the early eighty's. This tree was awesome. It has to go for a foreign owner pool house . Mature , brilliant , Heritage in any language . I said no . I'm not removing it , was asked by two contractors , not doing it , that tree is one of a kind . The landscape architect needed someone to condemn the tree . This Isa Certified Arborist from Mass. said it had trunk bleeding , joke . this tree is straight up healthy and a prize for a homeowner . It is coming down , and I won't do it , and trust me , I whack more trees than most people you know without a wet eye . That is a Heritage tree , and that word Heritage needs to be addressed . Not by it's dbh ( cant say breast height anymore ) this Elm I mentioned will come down , for a pool house . No guide lines , it's just a fkn tree . sorry no ego youtube video .

[/ QUOTE ]

And I have seen other perfectly healthy, beautiful elm trees being cut down that were not sick, but for an expansion. Old classic apple trees being cut down, as I myself have done just because the customer wants them out; and there are good heirloom apple trees that it would be hard to find a protected classification for, but that should be protected. As Mike Johnson used to tell me, the takedowns are the gravy jobs because a large percentage of the jobs a tree service is spraying work, time consuming pruning. In Connecticut it is legal for any laborer to whack a tree and cut it down, but against the law to prune or otherwise improve a tree with up to $2500 a day fine for doing so.

Just curious; has an ISA certified arborist ever gotten in trouble for condemning a tree that was perfectly OK?
 
Hate to be the owner of that house. There is one on City property here that is 7 feet in diameter, 102 feet tall and 104 foot spread. It is, as far as I know, the second largest of it's species in the state. It scores at 8% of the state champion, so it can't be a co-champion. It is in very good health for its location, has branches sweeping the ground and is beautiful!
 
The City of Toronto created the Private Tree Protection By-Law in 2000, under the authority of section 135 of the Municipal Act.

All Privately owned trees greater than 30cm DBH require a Permit or Permit Exemption (Dead, Terminally Diseased, Immenently Hazardous) before removal.

The Municipal Act does provide authority for a city/town to designate a Heritage Tree in light of the definitions for a Heritige feature/landmark.

Provincially tree can also be designated as Heritage.

Presumably the intention of these "Heritage Tree Programs" is mis-identified as a Tree Protection By-Law. The regulators may have chosen the term "heritage" because it politically sounds better - better for implementation, and better for enforcement (i.e. seems to have sharper teeth)

Toronto's Tree By-Law isn't perfect, but it does permit trees to be removed if compensation for canopy loss is negotiated. I have grown to tell clients that before we even talk about our cost to remove the tree, they will have to budget $800-$2000 for regulatory fees. (for 1:1 replacement ratio situations: $100 application fee, $150 Arborist Report, $585 replacment tree fee)

Regardless of correct terminology, these programs are expensive to run. I believe there are 90+ inspectors in TO. With an estimated annual salary of $60k - thats $5.4mil in salaries alone.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I would guess that tree was standing there long before the subdivision and house was built. The roots appeared to give way on the side of the street and sidewalk.

I would speculate that construction of the street and sidewalk may have been the demise of its ultimate failure.

Beautiful tree, and house. Shame for all concerned.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is not a subdivision but Main Street (Sharon Road) in the historic town of Glendale Ohio. House was built in the late 1800's and the tree, Pin oak, Quercus palustrus, likely germinated around 1940 or later is my guess. Very fast grower. We had a SEVERE blow come through here knocking down hundreds of trees around town including lots of big ones.

Tree architecture, lean and unusual direction of winds combined with lack of root development by the road were factors imo. Also we have had unusually heavy rains this year possibly leading to suffocation of roots. Hindsight is always better. Tough one to predict or pre condemn. People around town are residually terrified about their big trees now. Unscrupulous types are cashing in. A law, non existent here, might be a good thing.

http://www.glendaleohio.org/
 
[ QUOTE ]
I would guess that tree was standing there long before the subdivision and house was built. The roots appeared to give way on the side of the street and sidewalk.

I would speculate that construction of the street and sidewalk may have been the demise of its ultimate failure.

Beautiful tree, and house. Shame for all concerned.

[/ QUOTE ]

From looking at the pics Jer, I would have to aggree with your assumption.

Yeah, too bad for all.
 
Treevet, you definitely need a law and one that is enforced. As Mangoes stated the Toronto law is perfect but with the structure of it there is an initial cost high enough to force sober second thought and allow for other solutions to be considered. This also takes it out of the hands of the tree service alone. The arborist report could easily recommend removal but the reasons stated are evaluated by the city's inspectors. These people are generally well qualified (again, not perfect) and can at the least recognize BS.

Around me in North Jersey there are plenty of towns with tree ordinances but the overall impact is minimal. Too many small towns, unable to afford qualified people and too much political pressure brought to bear.

For Riggs situation with the elm, this is where a code of ethics enforced by the ISA should come into play.
 
Enforcing a code of ethics would be a snakepit. I like the Toronto model better; works in Europe too.
Writing reports is not easy at first but what excuse is there for these quickie condemnations?

Pruning to lessen risk is not that hard--why aren't more companies selling that service? Seems like a more sustainable business approach than just removal.
 
In the same vein that trees are condemned unreasonably too often especially by unlearned arborists Guy, I think you often overstate the ability of pruning to alter risk of worrisome trees. Case in point...tree pictured above.

Do you carve that tree into a Lombardy poplar look alike and decapitate it while you're at it? Epicormic sprouting would create a maintenance and cost nightmare. Decay would run rampant. Do you thin the interior canopy or gut it? New train of thought...when you open the canopy the blown and flexed tree, which would be dampened on the rebound...is now not dampened...and this is often how and when they fail.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Treevet, you definitely need a law and one that is

For Riggs situation with the elm, this is where a code of ethics enforced by the ISA should come into play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting point in general if not for the fact that many, esp. the unscrupulous are uncerted. In a perfect world if all were certed (including TRAQ in these cases) I wonder if the ISA would act intermediarally if called upon to protect THEIR "Code of Ethics" with local/state reps.? Seems like the best of worlds in ease of use prior to lawyer money sucking court action.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Case in point...tree pictured above.

[/ QUOTE ] If you're talking about the tree on the house, I have no idea. I didn't see it while standing, to look at symmetry of crown, density, overeextended limbs, etc. I didn't probe for roots, which seem to be lacking in the streetward direction.

th, yes the will is lacking but maybe that's in large part because of the fairness and affordability issues. If local experts were used, then competitors would be judging each other.

Can you imagine for example Rrggs and Murphy judging each others' work? Instant mayhem!
bangtard.gif
 
Can you imagine for example Rrggs and Murphy judging each others' work? Instant mayhem!

that's funny guy ! Seen your work and Murphs . Ever see me work ? won't be instant mayhem , but production would hit you right in the face . Stick to the subject Guy , don't try and be funny , not you . Murph knows his place , he just doesn't except it . Murph has game on you Guy , know that !

on another note this is becoming a serious issue . Someone said here does a certified arborist condemn a tree and another doesn't , that is a problem . Who has the right / power to condemn a tree ? Heritage by size or height ? so many experts like Guy . Politics , zoning , lying , that's why healthy mature trees come down . Heritage tree is not what it " should Be" . Maybe we need a stronger word .
 
You can KMA Riggs.... don't come on here telling people what to do.. You play your game and I'll play mine..

Leave it at that or ????????????????????????? NOT!

Yo Murph , I don't don't play games ! I work ! Get to the big leagues and you can play with me ! what time you get up in the minors ? 9 - 10 ? whoa , sorry to wake you with a sharp saw !
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom