Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

I was planning to use an identical sling for rigging. I wanted to test my splicing as I had just started. This way I know my splice was good and the knot is still the weakest link.
I dont think addding 2 1/2 hitches would change how it broke.
 
Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

speaking of chain...

This spring I bought over 200 feet of Grade 70 chain, 1/2 inch. I guy gave me a good deal on it. It sells usually for around $7.00 a foot.

It's a very strong lightweight (for the size and strength anyway) chain.

It's tensile is around 45,000 and it's working load is like 10,000 or 11,000 i remember it said.

But i think i remember reading it isn't for overhead lifting. Grade 80 and up is often for overhead lifting. So I guess you guys using chain for lifting are using some really high dollar stuff, well, if compliant.

anyway, i haven't used it except for one time, the k-boom truck was stuck on my property after putting in the giant sequoia.

i tried my regular logging chains (3/8"?) to a stump to the hooklift. broke two of the chains.

the hooklift is extremely strong by the way, 40,000lb hooklift. It will pull out the truck or push it out no matter how stuck it gets (another good reason for a hooklift).

so i went to the garage and used the wheelbarrow to bring out the big chain. 200+ ft. is very heavy! i struggled with the wheelbarrow even.

anyway, with that chain and the hooklift, it came right out.

I'm a sucker for buying high rated stuff....

here's a picture of the chain up close:
 

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Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

picture of the chain on the stump and to the hooklift.

oh, the first stump by the way, pulled out of the ground, i had to hook to another.
 

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Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

the front tires had sunken down in the mud, truck is out here.
 

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Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

If you were using hooklift to pull yourself out the stump would need to be pretty much in line right. Otherwise I could see alot of side pressure put on the lift.
Another thing Ive done is fold the boom over the bed of the truck. This takes alot of weight off the front and puts it over the drive wheels.
 
Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

hooklift is made to attach to containers somewhat jackknifed, often i hook to them at an angle and pick them up half way and steer the front tires around to straighten up as it is coming on.

I don't think if the anchor was out of the straight line it would damage or cause exessive wear, but on most things what your saying would sure be true. There would be a limit of course.

definitely have done what you said with the boom once. i was in a big horsefeild once and couldn't get up a wet grassy hill. I thought about the boom weight and did exactly what you said and that was the little that a needed to make it up the hill.

If the container or log body is on the truck with some weight in it, i can do the same with it; slide the load farther to the rear.
 
Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

How strong are the outrigger cylinders on that size of k-boom, I don't do it so much with the crane (Tri-drive so I haven't got it stuck yet), but with the bucket I usually use the outriggers to jack it up out of the hole and throw some blocks or alturna mats under the front wheels.
 
Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

[ QUOTE ]
How strong are the outrigger cylinders on that size of k-boom, I don't do it so much with the crane (Tri-drive so I haven't got it stuck yet), but with the bucket I usually use the outriggers to jack it up out of the hole and throw some blocks or alturna mats under the front wheels.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have done this also. They pick it up high enough to put wood under.
 
Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

[ QUOTE ]
..He can't do this, once a load is on the hook its solely the crane operators responsablity, if a sling breaks because it was knotted its his fault, not yours....

[/ QUOTE ]

He is aware of this too James. But, I think he says this to me to scare me from doing what we tree guys want to do.
smirk.gif
 
Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

bigeyes.gif
Dang David! Great idea for using the hook lift to remove stumps and pulling your truck out of the mudd.

What would you say the largest stump you have you pulled out was?

This is bunny trail BTW. Maybe it is best to reply in the "Arbor X's Versitile K-boom" thread.
thinking.gif
 
Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How strong are the outrigger cylinders on that size of k-boom, I don't do it so much with the crane (Tri-drive so I haven't got it stuck yet), but with the bucket I usually use the outriggers to jack it up out of the hole and throw some blocks or alturna mats under the front wheels.

[/ QUOTE ]
I have done this also. They pick it up high enough to put wood under.

[/ QUOTE ]

interesting allmark.

my front outriggers are not strong enough to pick the front tires off of the ground. Suspension goes way up, but the tires don't leave the ground.

the rear of our truck is so light that the rear ones can easily pick those rear tires off the ground.
 
Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think addding 2 1/2 hitches would change how it broke.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. The clove hitch is tied around a small radius piece of round stock. Increasing the diameter of the round stock would increase the breaking strength. You can see where the rope doesn't stretch at the 'tie off'.

Thanks for the test AllMark. Very informative and educational. Your splicing must be "top notch".
 
Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

Just a follow-up, I spoke with a rigging expert about this debate and he agreed with me that what we do with spider legs is OSHA compliant and may be a good idea for control too.
 
Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

[ QUOTE ]
Just a follow-up, I spoke with a rigging expert about this debate and he agreed with me that what we do with spider legs is OSHA compliant and may be a good idea for control too.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I started this threat I should have clarified something. My crane operator says that we (crane companies & tree companies) are in compliance with OSHA standards, but not ANSI when we tie knots to loads. A sling (synthetic or metal) must be a basket hitch or choked.

That's it.

At the moment I can't give a reference for more details on this. Mark. Do you know any ANSI guys?
smirk.gif
 
Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

[ QUOTE ]
....and may be a good idea for control too.

[/ QUOTE ]

you are funny in your subtle ways.
grin.gif
 
Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

[ QUOTE ]
Just a follow-up, I spoke with a rigging expert about this debate and he agreed with me that what we do with spider legs is OSHA compliant and may be a good idea for control too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, you da man.
 
Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

[ QUOTE ]
My crane operator says that we (crane companies & tree companies) are in compliance with OSHA standards, but not ANSI when we tie knots to loads. A sling (synthetic or metal) must be a basket hitch or choked.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is nothing about a basket hitch or choke in the Z.
However, it does say:
5.7.7 "Tree sections shall be rigged to minimize shifting."

I think Mark C. knows a guy or 6 on the ANSI Z committee.
 
Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

[ QUOTE ]
I think Mark C. knows a guy or 6 on the ANSI Z committee.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?
thinking.gif
Is there need for that? That was a rhetorical comment brother...
 
Re: Crane Rigging & Knots in Them

So, I incorrectly cited my crane operator words. It isn't ANSI at all. That is my mistake. He told me that we cannot tie knots in our rigging and that it is an OSHA standard. (This is in the context of rigging).

I called him yesterday and he told me it was in the 29 CFR, and he told me the reference might be 1926.550. Well with quite some time reading, I found the answer and right reference.

Here it is: US Department of Labor, OSHA Regulations (Standards 29-CFR) Rigging Equipment for Material Handeling (d)(2)(v). Well, he actually cited me a different code number and I then researched the exact code.

It is actually stated twice:


1926.251(d)(2)(v)

"Knots shall not be used in lieu of splices."


1926.251(d)(4)(v)

"Knots shall not be used in lieu of splices."

I had to do a lot of reading and I suggest that all of us, who are doing crane assisted tree removals, do the same.

Citing work/rules is a must to get the facts straight.
 
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