NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
+1
CMI ProKnot Usage?
- Thread starter Jamin_Mayer
- Start date
RopeShield
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
RopeShield
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
chris_girard
Branched out member
- Location
- Gilmanton, N.H.
Thanks for the info Tobe, and for taking the time to test the ProKnot out for us on your machines.
Tobe_Sherrill
New member
- Location
- North Carolina, USA
Glad to participate Chris. Always love breaking stuff.
I called Kris Kirk (CMI founder's son) this morning to elaborate on my reason for criticizing Proknot's intended function. He's a very level-headed and reasonable guy. Kris openly admits some level of disconnect from the workings of tree care and didn't seem terribly aware of the limits an arborist puts on gear in the day-to-day.
When compared to rock climbers ...who can be quite sensitive about someone merely stepping on their rope, our practices/culture often requires some additional explaining.
peace all
I called Kris Kirk (CMI founder's son) this morning to elaborate on my reason for criticizing Proknot's intended function. He's a very level-headed and reasonable guy. Kris openly admits some level of disconnect from the workings of tree care and didn't seem terribly aware of the limits an arborist puts on gear in the day-to-day.
When compared to rock climbers ...who can be quite sensitive about someone merely stepping on their rope, our practices/culture often requires some additional explaining.
peace all
TC
Participating member
When I first saw the cmi proknot I thought, yeah, back up for double ascenders when footlocking, when I discovered the manufacturers intended use I felt sick.
.
.
- Location
- Longmont, CO
[ QUOTE ]
..when I discovered the manufacturers intended use I felt sick.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep. I was really confused by it too.
Since Tobe contacted them, I wonder if they will "pull it" (pun intended) for it's suggested usage.
..when I discovered the manufacturers intended use I felt sick.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yep. I was really confused by it too.
Since Tobe contacted them, I wonder if they will "pull it" (pun intended) for it's suggested usage.
RopeShield
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
[ QUOTE ]
RopeShield,
Is this your "invention?" You seem to know things even CMI doesn't about the tools intended function. If so, I meant no disrespect about your steel throw weight or other tools I personally view as dangerous (as i voiced to the Treepedo rep at a past trade show).
Attached are instructions that come with Pro-not;
[/ QUOTE ]
What is it specifically that makes the Proknot dangerous?
RopeShield,
Is this your "invention?" You seem to know things even CMI doesn't about the tools intended function. If so, I meant no disrespect about your steel throw weight or other tools I personally view as dangerous (as i voiced to the Treepedo rep at a past trade show).
Attached are instructions that come with Pro-not;
[/ QUOTE ]
What is it specifically that makes the Proknot dangerous?
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
[ QUOTE ]
What is it specifically that makes the Proknot dangerous?
[/ QUOTE ]
For me...toothed cams!
In innumberable pull tests over the years toothed cams have done catastrophic damage to ropes. This isn't just arbo ropes either. Go back and look at what has been found in tests for rope access/rock/ice/etc. climbing.
If I were looking for a tool to do this sort of job I would certainly want a non-toothed cam similar to what Gibb's invented decades ago. having a slip/grab function built into the cam is desirable when unknown...large...loads might be expected.
Hitches generally have good slip-grab function. any of the spiraling hitches work really well. Prusik types with wraps rather than spirals are less functional in the tests that I've read over the years.
At light loads a choked running bowline would work well. it can be tied with a retrievable end so that the climber doesn't have to go back to the rigging point.
What is it specifically that makes the Proknot dangerous?
[/ QUOTE ]
For me...toothed cams!
In innumberable pull tests over the years toothed cams have done catastrophic damage to ropes. This isn't just arbo ropes either. Go back and look at what has been found in tests for rope access/rock/ice/etc. climbing.
If I were looking for a tool to do this sort of job I would certainly want a non-toothed cam similar to what Gibb's invented decades ago. having a slip/grab function built into the cam is desirable when unknown...large...loads might be expected.
Hitches generally have good slip-grab function. any of the spiraling hitches work really well. Prusik types with wraps rather than spirals are less functional in the tests that I've read over the years.
At light loads a choked running bowline would work well. it can be tied with a retrievable end so that the climber doesn't have to go back to the rigging point.
- Location
- Pukalani, Hawaii
id use the pro knot for palm pruning. knots get bulky when your trying cinching down a rope to a palm frond stem. the pro knot would be perfect for this.
- Location
- Toronto ON
My palm pruning is limited, but if knots are too bulky why not just use a knotless rigging system? Slings are cheap, easy and quick. This ProKnot seems like a product nobody was really asking for. I see potential in the climbing aspect of tree work, but IMO rigging isn't one of them.
- Location
- Pukalani, Hawaii
if i buy one i will. i use webbing loops for now and slide line everything.
RopeShield
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
I agree if it is toothed and able to hook and pull or bite the the rope hard/aggressively, it will cause problems.
It is hard to tell but it looks nubby more than toothy.
I have on one occassion with my Gibbs cut thru the sheath of my expensive double braid w dyneema core.
My bad but I had to really pull hard to avoid cutting more hinge out. Workd just the same but went for the short cut of mechanical over prussik.
I had another big pull down of a big off centre Walnut past a historic Milk shed(I know weird). We actually pulled it so hard that as soon as we got it over centre and to the lay a few feet the hinge tore right out of the stump leaving a gap to the earth.
That time I did use a prusik and it slipped and grabbed well with extreme over tensioning. It went off like Cherry Bomb and with a big puff of smoke and fused hard to the pull rope.
I still think the ProKnot if similar to the Gibbs type cam will be very useful in many of the situations described.
Judgement, application of the appropriate Laws of Science, truthful computation and common sense is all that is necessary to use the Proknot successfully. IMO
One of those things where I want to believe but just need confirmation.
It is hard to tell but it looks nubby more than toothy.
I have on one occassion with my Gibbs cut thru the sheath of my expensive double braid w dyneema core.
My bad but I had to really pull hard to avoid cutting more hinge out. Workd just the same but went for the short cut of mechanical over prussik.
I had another big pull down of a big off centre Walnut past a historic Milk shed(I know weird). We actually pulled it so hard that as soon as we got it over centre and to the lay a few feet the hinge tore right out of the stump leaving a gap to the earth.
That time I did use a prusik and it slipped and grabbed well with extreme over tensioning. It went off like Cherry Bomb and with a big puff of smoke and fused hard to the pull rope.
I still think the ProKnot if similar to the Gibbs type cam will be very useful in many of the situations described.
Judgement, application of the appropriate Laws of Science, truthful computation and common sense is all that is necessary to use the Proknot successfully. IMO
One of those things where I want to believe but just need confirmation.
flushcut
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Delavan, WI
Sounds to me like you should have rethought your whole rigging scheme. Maybe use a GRCS or a porty as the rope to pulling implement interface so you won't damage your lines or fuse the hitch to the line.
RopeShield
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Both situations I used triple and double sheave pulleys CMI SS attached to main pull line and finally to the Goods.
I prefer many times tensioning to shaving the hinge.
I never thought about using the porti as rope grab.
Thanks!
Funny where a thread will take you!
You my friend deserve a pitcher of the finest lager/pilsner/ale/stout or all of the above.
Cheers
I prefer many times tensioning to shaving the hinge.
I never thought about using the porti as rope grab.
Thanks!
Funny where a thread will take you!
You my friend deserve a pitcher of the finest lager/pilsner/ale/stout or all of the above.
Cheers
flushcut
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Delavan, WI
Glad I could help.
RopeShield
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
[ QUOTE ]
RopeShield,
Is this your "invention?" You seem to know things even CMI doesn't about the tools intended function. If so, I meant no disrespect about your steel throw weight or other tools I personally view as dangerous (as i voiced to the Treepedo rep at a past trade show).
Attached are instructions that come with Pro-not;
[/ QUOTE ]
Just revisited this. Haven't got one yet and wondering if any one is using the ProKnot?
Alls well I respect your opinion but I am hoping you could expand on the dangerous bit for both tools.
Confusing misuse and danger? BigShot, Proknot,RopeArmor or any tool can be considerd dangerous when misused but are completely safe with proper training and instruction. True?
Our throw weight is much more than just that as well as being made up of many other materials. Treepedo/RopeArmor is Aluminium, Stainless Steel, Vinyl with rubber or Foam with rubber.
Please do not forget the foam protective sleeve as providing the most impact dampening of any throw weight on the market. Safer by design and material.
Proknot, RopeKnight has been presented as a solution to meet a problem(s). And is deserving of more than a simple "its dangerous" because hard working men and women have put time and energy into providing a solution and our deserving of greater effort.
Innovation is to be embraced because what doesn't work for one will work for another or morphs into something different with another application or at a minimum becomes an inspiration for another enterprising individual.
Hope any one reading this does not give up on their solutions but will be inspired to go forth with a confidence and knowledge that we are here to thoughfully consider your solution presented.
Cheers
RopeShield,
Is this your "invention?" You seem to know things even CMI doesn't about the tools intended function. If so, I meant no disrespect about your steel throw weight or other tools I personally view as dangerous (as i voiced to the Treepedo rep at a past trade show).
Attached are instructions that come with Pro-not;
[/ QUOTE ]
Just revisited this. Haven't got one yet and wondering if any one is using the ProKnot?
Alls well I respect your opinion but I am hoping you could expand on the dangerous bit for both tools.
Confusing misuse and danger? BigShot, Proknot,RopeArmor or any tool can be considerd dangerous when misused but are completely safe with proper training and instruction. True?
Our throw weight is much more than just that as well as being made up of many other materials. Treepedo/RopeArmor is Aluminium, Stainless Steel, Vinyl with rubber or Foam with rubber.
Please do not forget the foam protective sleeve as providing the most impact dampening of any throw weight on the market. Safer by design and material.
Proknot, RopeKnight has been presented as a solution to meet a problem(s). And is deserving of more than a simple "its dangerous" because hard working men and women have put time and energy into providing a solution and our deserving of greater effort.
Innovation is to be embraced because what doesn't work for one will work for another or morphs into something different with another application or at a minimum becomes an inspiration for another enterprising individual.
Hope any one reading this does not give up on their solutions but will be inspired to go forth with a confidence and knowledge that we are here to thoughfully consider your solution presented.
Cheers
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