CMI ProKnot Usage?

I personally see this is a brilliant and safe/er tool and method than knots in a given scenario.

Take a close look at the end of anyones rigging rope.

Proknot is the answer. Even if you were not aware there was a problem, someone else did and solved it. Good for him/her.

Everyone is rope schooled differently.

Practical and acedemic sensibilities would suggest the ProKnot used within its limitations/potential will afford effeciencies in time, material and energy.

Consider bend radius, rope on rope friction, ease of handling the list goes on and on.

Simply stating the ProKnot is unsafe, is Unjust. We want to be expsoed to tools that makes things easier and safer and it is our right to push the limits of tools to within its safety margin and to gain what ever the goal maybe.

Like going to the moon, breaking the sound barrier, beating world records etc. We can be/build it faster, stronger, better, safer etc.
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Its our god given right to push tools and practices to the
limit.
Can you imagine a world with "safe" tools?
Everything from a chainsaw to a Corvette would be banned or would come with limitations so extreme as to be regressive.

Proknot is progressive.

Who is the inventor? Why did he first come into this idea? There are many questions to answer before I make a final decision on something.

Running bowline is great but why can't it be better? Proknot from where we sit mb better!
Bring on innovation that is what makes the world go round.

We need more agents of change, other wise status quo would have us still tyinging tautlines.

TreeBuZZ is a place for all to present their ideas. CMI has worked hard to bring us this tool it is the least we can do to sit comfortabley from our desks and be Positive, constructive, thoughtful, considerate and contemplative in our replies.

Besides all that, It is absolutely frustrating to be told something is to dangerous for me to use.
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Some people won't pickup a chainsaw or climb trees. Arboriculture is our choice, our vocation.
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We choose the danger, we choose the tools and we choose how and when we will use them.

Freedom of Choice.
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????

What is your choice? To have a world that is trying to be better/stonger/faster etc or status quo?
 
I know it isn't your intention, but you seem to be arguing on behalf of Proknot BECAUSE it is more dangerous.

I think people are against it because it serves little to no benefit over a running bowline. What advantages are there with the Proknot?

I don't think it's fair to use the "the running bowline tears up the end of your line" comment. We don't know if the proknot does the same yet. Looking at it, I'd think it would.

What advantages do you see in the Proknot?
 
Meh, I still don't like it. For some reason it looks like it will jam up against the limb when loaded just like when you run an asender up against a knot.
 
I think it was a waste of R&D.

What is also alarming is CMI doesn't provide ratings for it.

But, I'd be more than happy to be corrected if someone were to buy one and make a video to convince me it is more useful than a paper weight.

...I said it.
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Ok no one has said it yet so i might as well.

It looks like a nice quick way to make an ascent line static. A good way to back up a double ascneder. Mark C used something of this sort a number of years back in AR at the International Comp. Then Brian (forget his last name) used it two years ago in the NJ comp. Seems like that would be the obvious use for me.

Set an isolated line, Throw on the ProKnot, walk it up to the limb. Now both ends of the rope are static. Throw on your double ascender and away you go.
 
1st let me say I have not used the Proknot and have not been exposed to any Proknot info other than what has been presented here.

2nd I have studied Rope on Rope and counless other manuals/text but in no way am I an expert. I am only giving my opinion as a practicing arborist/Tree service owner/inventor and human.

Over the years we learned to trust mechanical tools to be a wise alternative. For obvious reasons.
Nothing has changed. Here is a mechanical tool in place of knots or rope on rope. Why should I dismiss it? Metal on rope offers effeciencies that cannot be duplicated by rope on rope.
Basic science is something that I will not argue with.
If that is your perogative. Go for it.

If I may reiterate. A tool is only as dangerous as the person using it. How many people have been injured by a chainsaw/handsaw?
Proknot is inherently safer based on design.
Rope knot strength opposed to Proknot strength/rope strength?
I think the actual calculations would be in favor of Proknot if all things being considered equal. I dunno mb.

I have atleast a dozen tools from CMI.
I have trusted them with my life, others lives and property.
I think I will trust them on this.

Looking at it, I see a thoughtful well designed tool with very specific set of actions. Capturing progress within mechanical parts.
Sounds safe to me.
The tools intention is safety.

The big point here for us all to realize, we as humans resist change. It is our nature.
I bleed when cut. I use a knife anyways. Without knives things would be near impossible. That is all I am saying.
At some point in human development we decided it is an acceptable risk.
We either lead this change, resist this change, or follow the leader.
I like to have a choice and to have the info to be able to make a decision. Many times I need the help of others.
Thats why I am here. To get help, learn and share.


I did not say anything about tearing up the end of your line. look at the end of your rigging line. How many times have you cut the tail off? Should you be doing it more often?
I have been very clear with my words.
Nothing was said about running bowlines tearing up rope.

We know knots will wear rope. Why are you arguing this principle?

People here are not against Proknot. If you consider the few who are actually replying to the ones who do reply or who do not care to share their thoughts, things may look different.
I already trust CMI I just want to believe it is true.
It will be very exciting for me to try it the first time!
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Arborists are different. Engineers, doctors, other trades people are different.
The latter may look at the proknot as being a very sensible approach to rope use and see the running bowline as the opposite.

What do you think?
 
I don't think it would be to hard to release. I jam my ascenders into the branch union i'm ascending to occasionally and have yet to be unable to get it undone. I'm not talking from experience though.

To me it seems like a quick simple solution to back up double ascenders. Some may like it others might not. I can see arguements both ways. I'm simply calling this one as i see it with no experience to back it up.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it would be to hard to release. I jam my ascenders into the branch union i'm ascending to occasionally and have yet to be unable to get it undone. I'm not talking from experience though.

To me it seems like a quick simple solution to back up double ascenders. Some may like it others might not. I can see arguements both ways. I'm simply calling this one as i see it with no experience to back it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

True!
Take a closer look at the cam pullr. Looks to be stainless and beefy. I am guessing you should be able to release that easily with just the weight of the rope on it.
 
So far it is for
1.Rigging in place of bowline,set up two pull line with one rope, rig two limbs with one rope, limb balance rigging, there is more just use your imagination.

2.to set up foot loops
3.SRT
4. Extra set of hands to hold rope intead of tying onto harness
5. ascender
6.safety for transitioning between disconects of tips
7. lashing down loads
8. Its the same but different than a bowline so the list goes on and on and on.
 
RopeShield,

Is this your "invention?" You seem to know things even CMI doesn't about the tools intended function. If so, I meant no disrespect about your steel throw weight or other tools I personally view as dangerous (as i voiced to the Treepedo rep at a past trade show).

Attached are instructions that come with Pro-not;
 

Attachments

I have never used this device, but it seems if a rope were through a friction saver above, and both sides of the rope were engaged in the proknot and then the device fastened to an anchor at the chest level on a harness, it would ascend nicely with a pantin on either foot in a rope walking motion, and be self advancing.
 
UPDATE:
Configured the Proknot in our break machine (static test) today and it survived to an incredible 4,200-lb pull using 1/2-inch Superbraid (tight double braid, 10,000-lb tensile) rigging line. The rope tore, and ProKnot body snapped (shell near cam hinge).

if i had another i would attempt a drop test (dynamic) with the ProKnot's max load rating of 500-lbs to 4 feet, where i suspect the rope would tear but cam shell might likely survive. CMI makes super dependable hardware in this category!

In similar tests with handled ascenders (having toothed-cam), polyester rope usually shears below 3,000 lbs. Non-toothed rope grabs tend to slip around 1,200 pounds without significant damage to rope sheath.

Still feel this device (or similar, even without teeth) is suited for climbing, not rigging. Perhaps Surveyor is on to something...

NOTE: in previous post, Ropeshield intertwines climbing use descriptions with rigging use descriptions, as if one tool can do both. Suspecting that he didn't mean that, all should be reminded that practitioners of safety in north American arboriculture (Canada included) warn strongly against mixing these uses.
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The tree which moves some to tears of joy, is in the eyes of others, only a green thing which stands in their way.  ~William Blake
 
I don't like the line that says, "although proknot is rated for 500 pounds, when life or property is at risk limit use to 250 pounds"

Which is it? 250 or 500?

love
nick
 
Scenario: Chunking down wood and that bad boy lands face first into the stem... Knots can take a beating (in fact you beat some to loosen them off), this thing I have my doubts...
 
Sorry to say it is someone elses invention.
I understand the ProKnot key principle.
I would like to have one in my hands to see it to its full potential.
Thank you for your concern, opinion and appreciate you taking the time to visit us at the show.

I like the ProKnot. I see it as being a helpful tool in many different types of rigging scenarios.
I plan on getting one because it has identified a problem and is a reasonable solution.
All tools come with warnings.
We have a choice to heed the warnings.

Best tool for the job is all we want.

I am advocating for this tool because I believe it has a place in Rope Access and I trust CMI to produce it.
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