CLIMBING HAZARDOUS OAK TREE

[Reach]

Since many of the trees I remove are gonna be milled, getting logs to land perfectly flat can be a very bad thing. Redwood is some pretty brittle fragile shit, and landing logs flat is usually a sure fire way to blow up very valuable wood.

We dropped a Tulip Poplar on Friday morning that way, landed nice and pretty....and blew up... 24”+ diameter log just shattered. Looked like someone dynamited it. Rather disappointing to say the least, instead of going to the mill it went to the kindling pile.

 

[southsoundtree]

When pulling with a rope, you may need to change tactics to get flat landings, like when undercutting the COG.


@rico, how do you ideally land them to prevent breakage?


Do you find yourself building lays with your skidder, at times? Spars, or trees, or pads for aerial log target practice?

I'm interested in a mill and have been saving logs. I haven't had much breakage, that I can tell. I tend to be dumping into native forest, or have a pad to reduce impact on the site.

 

[rico]

When pulling with a rope, you may need to change tactics to get flat landings, like when undercutting the COG.


@rico, how do you ideally land them to prevent breakage?


Do you find yourself building lays with your skidder, at times? Spars, or trees, or pads for aerial log target practice?

I'm interested in a mill and have been saving logs. I haven't had much breakage, that I can tell. I tend to be dumping into native forest, or have a pad to reduce impact on the site.

I usually try to get them to come up a bit short of flat so the but end comes down first, then the rest of the log lies down a little gentler. Some times if I am taking long logs (33' and over) I will try to get them to come up well short of flat so they come down really gentle. Even then you have to very careful with this Redwood. The climate change has also really changed the the game in that what you could get away with 10 years ago is now a no go, and many times will lead to blown up wood.

Like you, much of the time I am bombing wood on relatively natural forest floors, so the need for creating bomb zone beds is rare. I did recently do 2 decent Red removal. I brushed them out, blew tops out of them, then pulled over two 143.5 ft spars. The landing zone for the spars was down an extremely hard base-rock driveway that I knew was gonna blows these logs to smithereens. I layed out a bunch of old tires, hit my lay, and they saved out perfectly. The bottom line is you are gonna blow up some wood when bombing logs out of the sky from a 100 ft. Try not to sweat it to much and do what you can to minimize it.

BTW-If your saving logs for future milling I would highly recommend you get some end sealer on those logs. You will thank me later.

 

[southsoundtree]

yes, mistinted paints are $10-12/ gallon at hardware stores.

I would like to get some Anchor-seal.

I need to get on building some places out of sun and rain to store logs once milled, whether I hire a mobile mill, or have my own by then. If I had the mill, I'd have the lumber. I have framing lumber-logs out there.

Time and money.

 

[rico]

yes, mistinted paints are $10-12/ gallon at hardware stores.

I would like to get some Anchor-seal.

I need to get on building some places out of sun and rain to store logs once milled, whether I hire a mobile mill, or have my own by then. If I had the mill, I'd have the lumber. I have framing lumber-logs out there.

Time and money.

If your producing enough high value millable logs then a mill will pay for itself very quickly Sean, as long as you have a market for your goods. If your goal is to produce marketable lumber and slabs I would seriously looking at the Lucas 10/30. For the mill with sabber you are probably looking at around $18000 new from Baileys. Once you learn the tricks and get it dialed in lumber falls out of this thing very quickly. It is also highly mobil, can be set up almost anywhere, will mill big diameter logs, and with extensions you can do up to 40 ft logs. We won't talk about the slabber attachment. Money on a stick!!!!

I would be wary of a bad saw mill. Been there done that. Another great option is a mobile dimensional , but they are no longer in production. They can be found used and it is my understanding that parts production is still happening. As far as producing lumber nothing mobile is better than this mill.

 

[Chaplain242]

yes, mistinted paints are $10-12/ gallon at hardware stores.

I would like to get some Anchor-seal.

I need to get on building some places out of sun and rain to store logs once milled, whether I hire a mobile mill, or have my own by then. If I had the mill, I'd have the lumber. I have framing lumber-logs out there.

Time and money.

Guys around here try to get hold of old lead based paint as it is superior for this purpose.

 

[rico]

We could all use a little more lead and mercury in our lives!! You ever heard the expression "mad as a hatter" Chaplain?

 

[southsoundtree]

Rico, I'm so backed up with tree work It would be hard to make any money with a mill, because of the time involved in milling/ stacking, then marketing, etc, would take away from my bread and butter. There are many local mobile millers, so I'm not cornering any market. Until I get a handle on the marketing, I'm only sinking money in to learn and use it for my own devices.

If I can take it to customer's houses and leave them one log or two of Their logs, slabbed and stickered, and sell that on occasion, I'd like it.

If I were to haul their log home, I can take slabs from their trees back to them, if I'm so inclined. I'd like to sell them a bench made from their tree and a basic painted, welded steel frame, too. I can have a mill for my own use. In time, I"d like to learn more, and do more.

I have the difficult habit of getting spread too thin. I can only do so many things. I don't have spare time. As my daughter gets older, maybe, I'll get more time.

Trees are going to be dying from drought up here so badly that even if I just stick to my existing customers, I'm still going to be busy, and there are always new people calling. Hopefully, in time, I can get a longterm apprentice who becomes trustworthy to go TCB, and I'll mill at the shop.

 

[Chaplain242]

We could all use a little more lead and mercury in our lives!! You ever heard the expression "mad as a hatter" Chaplain?

Yes refers to Mercuric Chloride they used for felt manufacture.

But not intending the lead to be coated on skin, just log ends or slabs ends if stored.

Actually reminds me of a story. One of old mans friends went spotlight hunting with mates and had the urge to go (right now!) and ran behind tree to do the business and passed a cupful of powder. Had it tested and it was mercury and lead oxides.

He was in his fifties and had fasted a weekend every month as a habit his whole life. As a child he grew up in a home with lead paint walls and had a habit if licking walls as a child (suspected exposure period) and eventually came out all at once in powder form.

True story!

 

[Mowerr]

Yes refers to Mercuric Chloride they used for felt manufacture.

But not intending the lead to be coated on skin, just log ends or slabs if stored.

Actually reminds me of a story. One of old mans friends went spotlight hunting with mates and had the urge to go (right now!) and ran behind tree to do the business and passed a cupful of powder. Had it tested and it was mercury and lead oxides.

He was in his fifties and had fasted a weekend every month as a habit his whole life. As a child he grew up in a home with lead paint walls and had a ha it if licking walls as a child (suspected exposure period) and eventually came out all at once in powder form.

True story!

Whaaat!?!?

 

[climbstihl]

Even then you have to very careful with this Redwood. The climate change has also really changed the the game in that what you could get away with 10 years ago is now a no go, and many times will lead to blown up wood.

How has climate change affected the trees? Just that it's drier and they get less water or is there something else?

 

[rico]

How has climate change affected the trees? Just that it's drier and they get less water or is there something else?

Yea I think its just a matter of them getting drier, which in turn makes this already fragile wood even more so. The last couple of years it suddenly got very apparent that some of the things you could get away with were no longer gonna cut it. I would do removals on perfectly healthy trees, and the wood would literally be dry to the touch when it hit the ground. The shit felt like stickers and stacked lumber that had been on a dry rack for a year or 2. No shit!

Luckily we have had a couple decent winters down here in the last few years, so the forest has perked up quite a bit. This winter has been really wet and its raining as we speak, so hopefully these ancient life forms will take it all in stride, and still be here long after the human species is gone?

 

[southsoundtree]

Dry trees build more-brittle wood, I've been told.
More secondary issues, fungi, bugs, heat challenge/ water-columns breaking. Western redcedars are going to take a bad hit this year, I think.


Mulch and water soap box, here.

 

[evo]

Rico, I'm so backed up with tree work It would be hard to make any money with a mill, because of the time involved in milling/ stacking, then marketing, etc, would take away from my bread and butter. There are many local mobile millers, so I'm not cornering any market. Until I get a handle on the marketing, I'm only sinking money in to learn and use it for my own devices.

If I can take it to customer's houses and leave them one log or two of Their logs, slabbed and stickered, and sell that on occasion, I'd like it.

If I were to haul their log home, I can take slabs from their trees back to them, if I'm so inclined. I'd like to sell them a bench made from their tree and a basic painted, welded steel frame, too. I can have a mill for my own use. In time, I"d like to learn more, and do more.

I have the difficult habit of getting spread too thin. I can only do so many things. I don't have spare time. As my daughter gets older, maybe, I'll get more time.

Trees are going to be dying from drought up here so badly that even if I just stick to my existing customers, I'm still going to be busy, and there are always new people calling. Hopefully, in time, I can get a longterm apprentice who becomes trustworthy to go TCB, and I'll mill at the shop.

I’ve done some milling in the past. Seems like for one or a few logs on customers property a bandsaw is the way to go. Lukas mill for slabs or simi stationary or larger log decks. My county is one of the few left where it’s legal to build with ungraded lumber.

However what you have to offer is some what unique. There is little money in dimensional lumber, compared to slabs of odd ball hard woods. Save that figured maple, let it sit for a few years to get some spalting and you then have a log that’s worth 5$ per board foot.
I milled up a small sycamore and a few local wood workers went wild.

Network with cabinet makers, as they typically have the big planners, and drum sanders. Kick them down a few slabs for some shop time on the weekends.

 

[evo]

Yea I think its just a matter of them getting drier, which in turn makes this already fragile wood even more so. The last couple of years it suddenly got very apparent that some of the things you could get away with were no longer gonna cut it. I would do removals on perfectly healthy trees, and the wood would literally be dry to the touch when it hit the ground. The shit felt like stickers and stacked lumber that had been on a dry rack for a year or 2. No shit!

Luckily we have had a couple decent winters down here in the last few years, so the forest has perked up quite a bit. This winter has been really wet and its raining as we speak, so hopefully these ancient life forms will take it all in stride, and still be here long after the human species is gone?

Last year the WA DNR stared that wood moisture content in forest trees was lowest ever recorded. 14% if I recall, what ever the number I do remember it wasn’t far from air dried lumber!
Seems like your drought has migrated north!

 

[evo]

Dry trees build more-brittle wood, I've been told.
More secondary issues, fungi, bugs, heat challenge/ water-columns breaking. Western redcedars are going to take a bad hit this year, I think.


Mulch and water soap box, here.

Some areas around me are seeing 100% cedar mortality. Mass beetle kill in grand fir tops and whole trees, and even in Doug fir. On the surface out laminated root rot pockets appear to have doubled in size, not sure if it’s spreading more rapidly or the drought has pushed the non symptomatic trees beyond their edges..

I’m reminded of the drone footage from bixler in N Cal where about 50% of some pine stands were red. Our PNW unmanaged dog hair stands are ripe to go, this summer is going to be the tipping point for sure

 

[evo]

For @rico and @southsoundtree this offers some perspective. This dude is a climate crisis denier and frequency contradicts himself, but the maps are alarming. Some areas of Western Washington are about 10-20% of normal todate!

Should California Be Renamed the Evergreen State?

This blog provides updated forecasts and comments on current weather or other topics

cliffmass.blogspot.com

 

[rico]

For @rico and @southsoundtree this offers some perspective. This dude is a climate crisis denier and frequency contradicts himself, but the maps are alarming. Some areas of Western Washington are about 10-20% of normal todate!

Should California Be Renamed the Evergreen State?

This blog provides updated forecasts and comments on current weather or other topics

cliffmass.blogspot.com

Its all a Chinese hoax Evo. Surely you must know that by now? Even if its not and all the trees in Washington miraculously dry up and disappear, you are not welcome down here in NorCal buddy. SouthSouth can come down here and hang out if he wants, but we certainly don't need anymore trouble makers like yourself hanging around here. Hell No!

 

[LordFarkwad]

Gentlemen,

Is there a definitive resource or thread with discussion on the various types of cuts that are used in the tree, and their strengths/weaknesses? What had gotten me thinking about this is the salami cut portion of this thread a few pages ago. Things like the increased potential for the saw to get taken over with the piece that's dropping when the back cut is set above the notch apex, due to the vertical fissure that must run between the apex and the back cut kerf, etc., etc. Would love to read where the cuts are really broken down like this.

Edit: I've read, re-read, and currently re-re-reading Beranek (FOGT) - and love how his cutting material is presented, organized, and illustrated - but was wondering if there were other equally-regarded, and perhaps more comprehensive sources.

 

[evo]

Gentlemen,

Is there a definitive resource or thread with discussion on the various types of cuts that are used in the tree, and their strengths/weaknesses? What had gotten me thinking about this is the salami cut portion of this thread a few pages ago. Things like the increased potential for the saw to get taken over with the piece that's dropping when the back cut is set above the notch apex, due to the vertical fissure that must run between the apex and the back cut kerf, etc., etc. Would love to read where the cuts are really broken down like this.

Edit: I've read, re-read, and currently re-re-reading Beranek (FOGT) - and love how his cutting material is presented, organized, and illustrated - but was wondering if there were other equally-regarded, and perhaps more comprehensive sources.

Not specifically that I’m aware of. Many have talked about the best Crane cuts, etc. however nothing condensed into a thread. Perhaps a new forum sub heading full of stickys could be a easy to go resource. I nominate the buzz greater archivists for the job of picking out sections of threads with pertinent information per subject.