Climber vs. Lift

[Matias]

There are so many angles, literally, that this question can only be answered at the tree in question. I have worked on trees that had extremely limited access where the only mechanized access was by crane. Not an efficient way to do tip reduction. Assuming every cut is very easily accessed by a lift from a single position, the lift will probably win, but I regularly race a lift, and over time we're still neck and neck.

 

[rico]

A pickup is so clearly better than a Ferrari. Come on guys

you could always sell the Ferrari, buy your dream truck, take the wife out for a romantic dinner, purchase some much needed tree gear, pay off some credit card bills form previous tree gear purchases, and put the left overs in your kids college fund.

 

[data farm 26]

The reality is you use the right tool for the job if you want to be productive. Over long hauls, the lift doesn’t get tired. Also, a “best climber” has positioning experience that only comes from climbing. So a climber who has never been in a lift says “this is cool” when they finally get into a lift. On the other hand, a lift operator who has never climbed will struggle way more. In my mind, the best operator can exit the lift safely and do what needs to be done aloft because they have earned their stripes as a climber first. Any fool can learn how to get up in the air with a machine, but knowing what to do when they get up there requires both skill and experience.

Climbing out of the lift, that's the final form!

 

[Jehinten]

Here we go is correct.
I think being in a lift is one of the most dangerous things one can do. No place to go when things don't go as planned. No escape route, stuck right there to receive whatever is coming at you. And don't get me started on when a bucket suddenly wants to tip over and dump you out.

I've never really understood the sentiment that there's no where to go in a bucket. Most bucket trucks and lifts offer at least 30 feet of side reach, with an ideal setup you could potentially get 60 feet out of the way rather quickly. Buckets/lifts allow you to fly through the air, so you can completely avoid the work zone if theres some sketchy moving parts as opposed to climbing where you have to hide behind trunk wood (also an option in a lift)

I think both have pros and cons that you just have to be aware of.
Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Bucknut]

I've never really understood the sentiment that there's no where to go in a bucket.

I think he’s referring to a hydraulic or engine failure. If the truck quits it’s a problem, with the worst case being an engine fire type situation. I doubt every operator carries a bug-out-bag every time.

 

[Shadowscape]

You get a strong gust of wind when topping a tree and it comes at you, I would like to see you move that bucket and boom out of the way in time. On the stem I can at least sidestep it very quickly.
No thank you. I don't want to be trapped in a bucket if things don't go as planned.
Probably fine for pruning twig ends. But serious wood removal, not this fellow.

 

[Matias]

You get a strong gust of wind when topping a tree and it comes at you, I would like to see you move that bucket and boom out of the way in time. On the stem I can at least sidestep it very quickly.
No thank you. I don't want to be trapped in a bucket if things don't go as planned.
Probably fine for pruning twig ends. But serious wood removal, not this fellow.

I tried it once, and then put the lift away and finished the job the way I felt more comfortable.

 

[Serf Life]

Idk I think if great climbers were as widely available and dependable as lift trucks they'd be the popular choice.

Hopefully no thinning either way...

Iron is cheaper than help (esp if paying decent wage). We only climb but it was a 3 man crew 5 days/week then a lift would be here already.

 

[oceans]

Is a climber faster than a lift/bucket for pruning? How about removal? Theoretical best climber vs theoretical best operator.

There was another thread here in which someone spoke about sales being way up recently and another user asked what the secret was. I wanted to chime in but it seemed to be the wrong place. This might be a good one.

Before I owned a lift, I told myself I would never buy one but in retrospect, I it was probably a point of pride. If I never wound up with so many inaccessible standing dead trees to manage, I may not have ever bought a lift. But I got a lot of those trees, so I bought a lift.

Sales immediately went up by 500%, which could be nice in a vacuum, but there also suddenly became a need for some decent support equipment.

My son is 6, so it’s been as many years that my snowball has been rolling down the hill. All I can recommend is that you have a fairly clear conviction about WHY you’re in the game, and that will help guide your choices in business.

Believe me, I am a life long climber at heart, but there is definitely a place for a lift in most any tree service’s quiver, micro or macro.

 

[Daniel]

The question is laughable.... many of the answers reveal a complete lack of knowledge and understanding...

The guy that taught me to climb/rig was 6'5", 210 lbs. and could do 9 one-handed pull ups... he would rig out 40' oak limbs that were so well balanced you could push the but around with one finger. I've seen him hand throw a line 90' into a backyard tulip right over the house, from the front yard. Limbwalk to the tips of every single branch on a monster oak with huge spread. He was like a machine... As fast as you could get the rope untied and back to him, you better be ready to take a wrap..... And I've seen Mark Chishom both prune and rig a removal... Those two are as fast as climbing gets.... At 63, I'd smoke either climber on most jobs as long as the bucket has the reach.

When John was in the bucket he would one hand the 200t while he was using the other hand on the pistol grip... On conofers he would make it rain on the way up. He cut as he moved, so the saw never stopped cutting and there was always a falling limb in the air. then piece out the trunk on the way back down in just seconds per cut .. he'd be up and down a 50' fir in under 5 minutes.

And you can cut trees from the bucket that you would never trust your life to, or access the tips of long over-extended horizontal limbs with ease. So stop the nonsense.. you're just proving how clueless you are.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

you're just proving how clueless you are.

The world typically functions somewhere under a rounded bell curve. ONce in a while we are around exceptions from either end.

It seems like Daniel had the good fortune to experience a climber from the upper end of that bell curve. There is a current thread about a climber barber chairing the top of a tree, and dodging injury/death. Most here would place him on the other end of this bell curve.

Neither of these two climbers are good arguments, or derision, about comparing lifts to climbers. They aren'tincluded as reference points when answering the OP's question.

 

[Muggs]

The climber that I learned from was 9 ft tall and ran a 200T in each hand.

 

[data farm 26]

The question is laughable.... many of the answers reveal a complete lack of knowledge and understanding...

The guy that taught me to climb/rig was 6'5", 210 lbs. and could do 9 one-handed pull ups... he would rig out 40' oak limbs that were so well balanced you could push the but around with one finger. I've seen him hand throw a line 90' into a backyard tulip right over the house, from the front yard. Limbwalk to the tips of every single branch on a monster oak with huge spread. He was like a machine... As fast as you could get the rope untied and back to him, you better be ready to take a wrap..... And I've seen Mark Chishom both prune and rig a removal... Those two are as fast as climbing gets.... At 63, I'd smoke either climber on most jobs as long as the bucket has the reach.

When John was in the bucket he would one hand the 200t while he was using the other hand on the pistol grip... On conofers he would make it rain on the way up. He cut as he moved, so the saw never stopped cutting and there was always a falling limb in the air. then piece out the trunk on the way back down in just seconds per cut .. he'd be up and down a 50' fir in under 5 minutes.

And you can cut trees from the bucket that you would never trust your life to, or access the tips of long over-extended horizontal limbs with ease. So stop the nonsense.. you're just proving how clueless you are.

It's just for fun daniel no worries

 

[southsoundtree]

Neither one is the answer for all.

Everthing is very market- dependent.


I'm my market, climbers would blow buckets out of the water all day long. Something about most trees being way, way too big for a bucket to do alone, and buckets having to set up 100-1000' from so many of the trees. Long, steep, narrow sideways are a problem.

If I worked in flat areas with smaller trees, big open lawn, no septic systems or fences, where it freezes, buckets would do way more.

Unless you work small enough and accessible enough trees, you will need a solid climber.



I don't know how many local companies have 100' buckets. The one I do know of would be great, except where it is to big to operate or access via the driveways.


Buckets and lifts are utilized profitably, locally, and in my specific market, but I think all those companies also climb.

 

[Merle Nelson]

There was another thread here in which someone spoke about sales being way up recently and another user asked what the secret was. I wanted to chime in but it seemed to be the wrong place. This might be a good one.

Before I owned a lift, I told myself I would never buy one but in retrospect, I it was probably a point of pride. If I never wound up with so many inaccessible standing dead trees to manage, I may not have ever bought a lift. But I got a lot of those trees, so I bought a lift.

Sales immediately went up by 500%, which could be nice in a vacuum, but there also suddenly became a need for some decent support equipment.

My son is 6, so it’s been as many years that my snowball has been rolling down the hill. All I can recommend is that you have a fairly clear conviction about WHY you’re in the game, and that will help guide your choices in business.

Believe me, I am a life long climber at heart, but there is definitely a place for a lift in most any tree service’s quiver, micro or macro.

Anyone that doesn't know, Oceans is a phenomenal climber and watching him move through big trees is about the last person you would expect to go big using a lift. (Also pictured on December 2023 TCIA magazine with lift and spider crane.)

 

[Daniel]

Everthing is very market- dependent.
Unless you work small enough and accessible enough trees, you will need a solid climber.

If the bucket can't reach the tree then the climber is faster... pure genius...

 

[27RMT0N]

Most of my work is totally inaccessible by any machine, bucket truck, tracked lift or otherwise. Properties are 5+ acres, and with usually a single driveway, tight woods, loose, wet, or steep ground. Driveways are narrow and often dead-end at the house, and it's not super uncommon for me to back my F350 all the way out to the main road since I can't even turn that around. Long wheel-base super tall buckets can't get many places, and towing a tracked lift on a trailer often means leaving it out at the main road and tracking down long gravel roads, sometimes like 1/4 mile.

All that said, I do see a growing use for some kind of lift, because SO MANY trees are dying. I see a shift from lots of view work below houses, to dead trees that are along driveways, surrounding parking areas and next to houses, garages and shops. I keep looking for under CDL, short wheel-base, rear mount trucks with 60' buckets. They are rare, but out there and I may get one some day...

 

[Daniel]

I just checked a video of me bombing out a large tulip spar.... 4 cuts.. the logs were 12'6" long and started around 18-20" diameter, final cuts were closer to 24" diameter... all four cuts in a total of 2 minutes and 20 seconds.. that 35 seconds a cut. There is no climber in the world that can go that anywhere near that fast...

 

[southsoundtree]

Most of my work is totally inaccessible by any machine, bucket truck, tracked lift or otherwise. Properties are 5+ acres, and with usually a single driveway, tight woods, loose, wet, or steep ground. Driveways are narrow and often dead-end at the house, and it's not super uncommon for me to back my F350 all the way out to the main road since I can't even turn that around. Long wheel-base super tall buckets can't get many places, and towing a tracked lift on a trailer often means leaving it out at the main road and tracking down long gravel roads, sometimes like 1/4 mile.

All that said, I do see a growing use for some kind of lift, because SO MANY trees are dying. I see a shift from lots of view work below houses, to dead trees that are along driveways, surrounding parking areas and next to houses, garages and shops. I keep looking for under CDL, short wheel-base, rear mount trucks with 60' buckets. They are rare, but out there and I may get one some day...

View attachment 91930

Similar, here.

 

[southsoundtree]

I just checked a video of me bombing out a large tulip spar.... 4 cuts.. the logs were 12'6" long and started around 18-20" diameter, final cuts were closer to 24" diameter... all four cuts in a total of 2 minutes and 20 seconds.. that 35 seconds a cut. There is no climber in the world that can go that anywhere near that fast...

While true, is that representative of the whole picture?

I once made a rate that was $6000/ hour because I made the felling cuts on a tree in one minute for $100.