broken ring and funny world

How the hell is Jay anyway? what was the final outcome for him?

I too refuse to buy any Kong products, and proudly wear the tee-shirt to proclaim it.


(the likely hood of my dad or brother climbing is a Zerlo... but it could have been me! )


Yours in trees,
Mark
 
I have a kong frog on my saka and love it. if I would've known of this incident might not have bought it that way.( Yoyoman your awesome as well as you JB )
Other than that after reading this entire thread I'll conclude with fuck Kong for there to reaction to this situation !!
PPE+KONG=NO WAY
. Jay if your out there cheers to you for how you handled this difficult situation.More people like you in this world would make it a better place. I never fucked with a computer until around last year sometime and missed out on alot of info due to the fact. Glad this type of thing exists to keep people informed. Treebuzz archives that is. I learned a good bit about people from this thread. The name suits the thread well.Tons of excellent posts within this thread. Stay safe out there.
 
Jay is a great guy ! Extremely knowledgeable !

Actually I was there when the ring broke.
I heard a very rapid "ping-ping", and he was on the ground.
 
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Had to be hard to watch .. That is horrible. I don't believe any of the details of the incident were revealed in this thread like hieght of fall or was he in middle of a swing?? Just was curious about that kind of stuff..like what kind of action he was doing during the pinging. Said he only missed one month of work which is impressive .. I was curious of the extent of injury. He must've been very relaxed which is good of course. All tensed up might've been his life or like paralyzed or something like that.
I know a guy who I think is a bullshittrr .. Who's all messed up says a side Dee on his Weaver saddle broke and that he's gonna make out on that deal ,but just rides his bike around town now. I'm wondering with the treatment I've herd in this situation if he's not telling the truth and won't receive anything for his pain and suffering.
 
He was jumping from the limb to th e landing target. The scene wil forever be etched in my memory. First thing he does is ask if he got DQ'd. Kong did end up paying sherrill a large chunk of money from what I have heard.

none of that money ever made it to Jay.
 
Thanks for the reply Bing. Guess he was not terribly high up when the ring popped, not that he probably generated some speed in the jump. Dudes got some heart , i love that. The plot thickens if that's the case with the money. What a crying shame not taking care of Jay .. Wow I'm sickened.
 
Seems to me Kong needn't have worried about this. Wesspur, Sherrilltree and Treestuff are all carrying Kong still.
In spite of Treestuff's current boss saying he wouldn't trust his life to Kong gear. And in spite of Sherrilltree 's former boss saying they stopped carrying Kong.
It reads like the only consequence for them was they had to pay Sherrilltree some money for their outlay on the recall.

I never read any answer to how it could happen that curtain rings was sold as life support, and what was done to prevent it happening again.

To summarize Tobe's posts, if I understood them right: For sure the faulty rings had a unique appearance which was exactly the same as he found in boxes from Kong, and due to 'common reason' he is sure Kong did not make them.

On the other hand, he retells messages from the spokesperson at Kong, admitting that they do infact outsource the making of such rings but that the possibility of a mixup is 'very low'...
Also that every piece of equipment leaving the Kong warehouse is tested and marked.
Furthermore, while Tobe assures us that every ring sent from Kong is tested, he also assures that the faulty rings could have come from no other place.

Based on that, and on DSMc's theory that everyone speaks the truth, I believe that a pirating manufacturer got hold of the shipments, and switched some of the rings, for some reason, with their own countetfeits. Only problem, they had copied exactly the Kong curtain rings instead of the Kong life support rings, by mistake. They would then pack up the boxes and send them from italy to US Rigging, to Jack Dunn the Kong U.S. representative, and to Sherrilltree. It was not until the third potentially fatal incident that the rings were recalled, and much further common reasoning was done before this clever but filthy pirate scheme was finally uncovered by the diligent people at Sherrilltree. The main reason it was not earlier discovered, was that the markings on the rings were not apparent until the rings were exposed to extreme heat, which would be outside the manufacturer's intended usage and thus void the warranty.

It only makes sense, and as Mr. Holmes would say, "once you've eliminated the probable, only the impossible remains."

Thanks and best regards to OP.
 
So......for those of us that don't know every bit of the story, and for those of us that are not going to re-read this thread,.....is your post almost entirely built on sarcasm as it appears?

From what I remember of this topic I'm disappointed Kong didn't get more of a universal shunning from the climbing community too. But, they did not entirely skate either. I'm light weight in that I have some accessory biners previously purchased which I continue to use. However I will not buy anymore of their products and I know a number of climbers who threw away all Kong products and refuse to even use already owned gear.

As a short recap, what do you believe the climbing community should do, and why?
 
Hi Merle, first half wasn't ment sarcastic, in the second part I tried to conceive of a story that was consistent with all the parties telling the truth. That became sarcasm. Maybe because of my lack of imagination to construct a probable story, or maybe someone was lying.

I wrote because I wanted to know what had happened in the mean time, to make the vendors deal life support gear from them.
Tobe said he'd stopped carrying their stuff, and @bonner1040 said he would not trust his life to it. But now his company sells it for other people to hang their life on. I do search and read a bit before I buy gear. But it would be nice to have a vendor who stood by what they sell, and who had accountability when they føcked up. ST made friction savers with the bad rings without noticing and apparently there were three incidents over several years before they did a recall.
Why, and what change in procedure will prevent this from ever happening again?
Tobe changed his tune from clobbering Kong hard, to having the highest praise for them without giving a reason.
There are a lot of loose ends here, the biggest is that Jay never got any reimbursement it seems. Thrown under the bus by the three biggest US vendors, I don't know.
The references here to heaps of broken Kong gear, they sell it, how can I think they have standards, how can I trust the stuff the vendors themselves make if they don't?
Also, what was the lesson to the manufacturers? Probably Kong sells more now to tree people than they did before.

At first I wrote a post including the quotes that were in conflict, it just became too long. Can pull the relevant quotes from my draft if any point needs reference.
 
Ahh, that's a great summary of your thoughts for my limited mind - thanks.

The one thing I'm still left wondering is what you think would be the solution to this at this point? AND, what you think a company and a supplier should do about this type of situation should it arise in the future?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and bringing up this important point.
 
I don't know what the supply chain should do because I don't know who did what to cause the accident. That nobody claimed responsibility, is clear.

I want Sherrilltree to explain what happened, or construct a likely scenario from what they know. As well as explain why it won't happen again.

I want Treestuff to explain to me why they want me to buy gear that they would never use themselves for fear of their own life.

Edited (heavily reduced)
 
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Erlend said:
Re: Here\'s what I wrote to Kong

[ QUOTE ]
Hello,
I am deeply concerned to read about the plight of Jay Butcher, the Arborist in America who has been seriously hurt by your faulty product (alloy ring) that was recalled.

I am surprised that you would want to be seen to be ignoring his claim for compensation which seems entirely reasonable.

I am an Arborist who climbs trees on a daily basis and I talk and communicate with others all over the world. I will be telling everyone I know about how this poor fellow has been treated by your company until I hear that you have settled the claim to his satisfaction.

Other companies who have not understood the power of the internet have learned too late and had terrible damage done to their valuable reputations. They learned that it is easier to settle early rather than have their reputation made dirty in a way that it is not easy to ever clean. I can give you examples if you think I am not speaking the truth.

I hope you people re-think and settle this matter urgently before hundreds and then thousands or more people learn about this.

Pete Goding,
Australia.

Here is one link to the start of a concern by our community about all this:
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=239408&Main=239337#Post239408

[/ QUOTE ]

Copied, pasted, changed your name and country to mine, and sent. Hope you dont mind, Pete. I reconed there was no need for all of us to formulate a letter, when you did such a great job
smile.gif
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Tobe_Sherrill said:
I have something to add here.

In reference to the Kong ring failure involving arborist and competitive climber Jay Butcher, I want to insert details omitted from Kong’s issued notice. Included are details not previously discussed and possibly not known by the general public. I stand behind the following details extracted from witnessed phone calls (several including Kong's US representative from the time) and/or emails received directly from Marco Bonaiti.

In August 2006 a similar incident (one without injury) occurred with a Kong ring sourced from US Rigging that I was assured (by a Kong spokesman) “was alien goods substituted by US Rigging.” The distinctive feature of this otherwise plain looking fat aluminum ring was a “forging ridge” around the outside edge. The broken ring was not elongated (indicating high stress forces not present) and was cleanly severed asymmetrically. US Rigging strongly denied substituting any rings but because of a variety of low cost imports they were marketing I wasn't personally convinced.

Based on Kong’s critical assessment of US Rigging, SherrillTree returned all aluminum rings to USR and began sourcing directly (and strictly) from Kong in Italy. Kong assured going forward that this was the only way to guarantee tested and laser marked Kong goods and I agreed. Problem solved.

Three years later and just weeks before Jay Butcher would saddle up for the Ohio tree climbing competition, we received a call from a climbing instructor teaching forestry students at a popular SC university. He reported that the small ring in his (recently purchased) friction saver had snapped while demonstrating the body thrust technique to a group of students. Thankfully he was not hurt. Upon hearing this news and reviewing photos, I investigated inventory on our shelves and to my horror discovered unmarked rings again with the distinctive forging ridge in unopened cartons mixed among marked Kong rings. Like a hammer to the head it dawned on me that US Rigging was innocent all along. In an initial conversation with Kong’s president Marco Bonaiti about the university incident it was suggested that “SherrillTree surely has many sources for such rings and likely made the mistake in their warehouse.” I could prove we had no such sources and ample documentation to back it up. Had it not been for Kong’s own US representative (Jack Dunn of AirSports) reporting the same blend on his shelves, I dare say there would have ever been a second conversation with the elusive Dr. Bonaiti. In follow up discussions (including written) Marco Bonaiti admitted outsourcing a similar ring for customers selling lady’s handbags, shower curtains and electric wire suspension but that the possibility of them getting mixed in his plant was quite low.

What became immediately important to SherrillTree was getting these rings off the street, and friends out of harms way. For Marco Bonaiti it was debating the odds of Kong culpability based on US law, the high cost of calling merchandise back and the poor decision by Jay Butcher to use this ring in the manner that he did (?). It was a truly disheartening view of the man I thought a responsible steward of safety and the Kong brand.

There’s so much more to say but I'd prefer that Dr. Bonaiti step out from behind his spokesman’s shadow with a shred of proof to his claim that SherrillTree, the company who organized and financed this business-debilitating recall, is in any way responsible for Kong's unacceptable and cancerous hardware incident.
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Have re-read through about half of this thread and here is an incredibly jermain post.

One other thing I picked up upon reading through was that Tom didn't want TreeBuzz used for any boycott activity. I hadn't read or focused on that before. Good enough....common sense will guide a persons actions I'm sure if you read Kong's responses. I take a person/company at their word when they say they can't x.

The one other thing that stands out in my mind is what an incredible group of individuals belong to the climbing community represented here. Man.......!
 
Are you kidding me?! I would've had a lawyer before I even made it to the hospital! Kong would've settled for a lot more had you pursued this. They should be paying for everything! Hospital, medical bills, lost wages, pain and suffering, mental anguish. That's your life that could've been lost due to a small ring. Get a lawyer......
 
Rick Teinert said:
Are you kidding me?! I would've had a lawyer before I even made it to the hospital! Kong would've settled for a lot more had you pursued this. They should be paying for everything! Hospital, medical bills, lost wages, pain and suffering, mental anguish. That's your life that could've been lost due to a small ring. Get a lawyer......
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You'd likely have to fly your lawyer to Italy, or fine an Italian lawyer.. It's hard enough to settle out of state, but taking across the sea's is a whole different ball game.
 
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