broken ring and funny world

[ QUOTE ]
Josh,

The point is, sherrill knows how kong has handled this and still promotes their gear to us. If you were a dealer and you knew that a companies quality of gear was in question and their ability to respond to mistakes was below par would you still sell their gear to your customers?

I know I wouldn't.

[/ QUOTE ]

How do you guys know this?

When you drive down the road and see a tree that's has less than optimum cuts, can you accurately state that the tree trimmer didn't know what he was doing? Or could there be a possibility that the homeowner left him very little to work with?

Making definitive statements without positively having the facts is bad practice. Is it not possible that all parties involved are actually telling the truth? How could that be? Does anybody understand how pirating works? The switching of items of lower quality for some party's financial gain has been going on for a long time in all areas of commerce. Guys that do this are good. They don't want to get caught. So switches often go unnoticed until something goes wrong.

Scenarios like this have very little to do with distributors and manufacturers but with unethical people trying to make a buck. This is just conjecture on my part with no evidence. But it is a possibility.

You all may be 100% right. I have no idea. But neither do you.

Dave
 
"Making definitive statements without positively having the facts is bad practice." Ok, sure but does your highly speculative conjecture that pirates are to blame help Mr. Butcher?

The fact remains Kong has handled this poorly and Toby is flip flopping like a fish on the deck. It's disgusting. Until they make it right I'll be avoiding both companies.
 
Thanks for the emails.

Agree about the facts. They remain;

Unmarked rings like the one that failed were shipped to us from Kong Italy.

SherrillTree enacted and financed the recall voluntarily in an effort to protect climbers.

SherrillTree is no longer promoting Kong.
 
Jay is indeed a victim and that tugs at our hearts while at the same time terrifies us with the knowledge that it could have been any one of us. Anger and fear produce very strong emotions but rarely clear thought.
My little story was just an example of how things that seem so obvious may not be.

Dave
 
Ed,

I understand the emotion tied to this hardware failure. I have it too. I just choose not to aim it at the warehouse worker in Italy or Sherrill agent in America that believed all was Kong-made and of good quality.

For those in the know, you'll recall that up until '08 Kong was THE ONLY SOURCE for these rings. Buckingham refused to sell rings.

Had the source of the problem taken command of his poor choice of supply then I would not be wearing his shoes today. SherrillTree has done all it physically (and financially) can ...in the US system. If that's not good enough for some then i suppose you should proceed with the stoning.

Having felt the wrath myself in light of our effort to rectify the matter, i can't help but feel a little sorry. If not for the list of wrongs and crazy Gaddafi-like statements, I might regret having thrown Bonaiti under the bus.

We have 3 Edward Rolands. What state are you in?
 
We are in America and its a free market, you can shop from who you want, whatever... but I don't think it is 100% logical or fair to crucify Tobe or Sherrill for this incident. Let's not forget all the safety and technique hints that Sherrill has been publishing for years. They don't have to do that and I know at least as far as I'm concerned they've helped me become a better, safer more well informed arborist. Are they the best at everything, are they free of mistakes?...who is? Does this hole episode suck for everyone concerned?...yeah. You can keep sending me your catalog Tobe and you can send me Ed's too if you want...I can keep one in the truck and at the house.
 
As a climber who has seen these rings on jobsites repeatedly since I knew about this failure, it really freaks me out and angers me that a full manufacturers recall was never done. Kong's failure to take responsibility for this problem has made it impossible for me to ever trust their gear fortunately I didn't even have one piece of gear made by them. I know of a Portland climbing gear distributor who sold friction savers made with these rings for quite a while. They never did a recall or posted any information about it to my knowledge.

Tobe-

I commend you and your company for doing what you have done as far as the voluntary recall. I'm sure that your lawyers hold your tongue and your hand quite a bit on this matter which makes it a bit harder to express yourself than the rest of us who don't have to worry too much about our public image as well our reputation and image in dealing with climbing gear companies in future business. I am a corporate conspiracy theorist as much as every other crazy American and try and support the little guy as much as possible but your company has not done me any wrong and I feel you do our industry a great service.

Would post more but got to go to work.

Brr. It is 19.
 
Sherrill has been good to me over the years. That may say more about my local dealer than anything but I still will not alter purchasing because of the KONG issue.

I would like to see Jay compensated. What form that takes or who steps up to the plate will greatly affect that company's P.R. Someone is responsible. The time for splitting hairs is done. Whoever IS responsible should be happy the outcome wasn't worse. Do the right thing.

I will not use or purchase KONG gear ever again. Whether directly or indirectly, they are involved and implicated here, and thier response in this matter has been disappointing and frustrating.

Also, NO ONE has explained how the ring was being used "incorrectly"...
 
[ QUOTE ]
there are lots of rock climbers who have been killed or hurt because of gear failing from petzl and cmi.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a hefty claim. Got any documentation?
 
Tobe, send me a catalog and I really think you do what's best for every climber troughout the world. Your catalog is indeed full of extra safety tips and advices.

It was your catalog about 10 years ago that showed me a lot of new gear and a lot of idea's.

Kong is more or less responsible or the person/company that has put this wrong gear into kong boxes.

At the moment there's a big thing involving Petzl for copied hardware wich isn't rated and dodgy manufactured but all appearance of Petzl gear. Including boxes and manual......so climbers it looks like we have to double check every peace of equipment from now on. I believe in DMM as a serious company and also Rock Exotica has really good gear. Kong is a no go at the moment and Petzl you have to see what you buy and the oldrange gear is no longer safe to buy new. see following link :

http://treetools.co.nz/_blog/Treetools_Blog/post/Petzl_warns_market_regarding_Chinese_counterfeits/

climb safe
wouter
 
Toby, I apologize for being so harsh. I'm sure this has put you in a bad spot and I also take you at your word that financially you have done all you can.

I read the legal tone of your post on page 13 to learn Kong went from very bad to very good in your estimation. If Kong, Sherrilltree and all the warehouse handlers for both are not culpable then there is a serious problem elsewhere in the chain. I believe it's helpful this discussion is even taking place.

Good luck to all the principals involved. My hope is that Mr. Butcher's concerns are satisfied.

ed
 
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the emails.

Agree about the facts. They remain;

Unmarked rings like the one that failed were shipped to us from Kong Italy.

SherrillTree enacted and financed the recall voluntarily in an effort to protect climbers.

SherrillTree is no longer promoting Kong.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you no longer promote or sell kong I swear I'll kiss you on the lips
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
there are lots of rock climbers who have been killed or hurt because of gear failing from petzl and cmi.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a hefty claim. Got any documentation?

[/ QUOTE ]

The petzl stop failed supposedly during a rescue. There is a video on youtube. Petzl Stop fail

I don't know if this is true or not, but it sure looks real.

May i add that Petzl has a great name and quality equipment. Its the nature of using mechanical devices. Eventually there is going to be a small malfunction.
 
True.

Back to the real issue. I hope Jay gets this resolved. He is not being unreasonable about what he is asking. I hate to see an honest man treated unfairly.
 
[ QUOTE ]


The petzl stop failed supposedly during a rescue.

[/ QUOTE ]

The Stop isn't rated as a two person rescue device.

There are other bobbin type rappel devices that work better. The Petzl Stop is sometimes referred to as the Creep because it, and other bobbins, tend to slip just a little.
 
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