Branch falls, kill man.

[mrtree]

Yes more money, for trees, for gardens, for roads, for sewers, for fireman, for police, for swimming pools, for public transit, for cost of living, for equality programs, for poverty elimination, for the birds and bees, for business etc.

 

[mrtree]

What is the difference between basal trunk decay and rot?

 

[Drewtree]

I realize this is a polarizing subject, and that people are going to disagree with me, but let's open a dialogue about this,

What is the difference between basal trunk decay and rot?

Oh come on, you're going to get into semantics with me now? Well excuse me, Basal trunk decay, "root" rot. fruiting bodies appearing from the soil within the drip line.

 

[Drewtree]

I realize this is a polarizing subject and that people will disagree with me, but come on. Why are you trying to pick me apart with semantics? why can't we use this as an opportunity to discuss this subject constructively?

 

[mrtree]

As for semantics, they will sink you in court.

Fruiting bodies from the soil? Perhaps a myco or a simple saprotroph not associated with the tree.

 

[mrtree]

I am discussing the subject constructively. We cannot remove all deadwood, not even across the street from an arborist's home.

 

[Drewtree]

I am discussing the subject constructively. We cannot remove all deadwood, not even across the street from an arborist's home.

Because of the city budget?

 

[mrtree]

City budget, priority, man power, union contracts, physical impossibility etc.

 

[mrtree]

City budget, priority, man power, union contracts, physical impossibility etc.

 

[Drewtree]

City budget, priority, man power, union contracts, physical impossibility etc.

So then the appropriate word to use would be "Won't" .. not "Can't". I doubt that physical impossibility qualifies reasonably in that list. How about instead we identify and prioritize high traffic parks and focus efforts on mitigating hazards in that respect? Perhaps a budget increase is in order? Perhaps the problem lies with the city sub contractor not adequately performing their duties?

 

[guymayor]

1. "Oh and you realize that inspection is not risk assessment nor risk treatment or mitigation"
   According to A300, risk assessment assumes inspection is done. fwiw. Anyway, I sell inspection and mitigation. "Assessment" is too vague a word imo. and wth is risk treatment?
2. "I even offered to deadwood the whole god damn park MYSELF for FREE."
   So why didn't you go ahead and do it? Maybe call a work day for your local arb group. Hi vis PR.

 

[Drewtree]

1. "Oh and you realize that inspection is not risk assessment nor risk treatment or mitigation"
   According to A300, risk assessment assumes inspection is done. fwiw. Anyway, I sell inspection and mitigation. "Assessment" is too vague a word imo. and wth is risk treatment?
2. "I even offered to deadwood the whole god damn park MYSELF for FREE."
   So why didn't you go ahead and do it? Maybe call a work day for your local arb group. Hi vis PR.

The city told me bluntly there was no way they would allow a private contractor to perform large scale tree work on a public park.

 

[Drewtree]

1. "Oh and you realize that inspection is not risk assessment nor risk treatment or mitigation"
   According to A300, risk assessment assumes inspection is done. fwiw. Anyway, I sell inspection and mitigation. "Assessment" is too vague a word imo. and wth is risk treatment?
2. "I even offered to deadwood the whole god damn park MYSELF for FREE."
   So why didn't you go ahead and do it? Maybe call a work day for your local arb group. Hi vis PR.

Maybe now is a good time to try that strategy again, though.

 

[guymayor]

There must be a reason they can cite, and that reason may not hold up. They're not God.

 

[Mangoes]

Because of the city budget?

2003 - Forestry Contractor Value = $1.4 million (Contract renewal from 2002)
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2002/agendas/council/cc021126/edp10rpt/cl004.pdf

2016 - Forestry Contractor Value = $27,289,294
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2015/bd/bgrd/backgroundfile-87062.pdf

I guarantee the tree population in TO has not grown by 19x since 2003. Yet the budget has.......JUST for Arboricultural Contractors.

If at all interested, keep plugging away in google. Put fiscal years into the keyword search. You will find interesting details. Such as - FY2014 resulted in nearly $40 million spent on trees via Arboriculture Contractors.
http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewPublishedReport.do?function=getMinutesReport&meetingId=9128


I wish to extend regret and condolences to the victim and his loved ones.

 

[squad143]

My 2 cents.

Toronto has a large canopy. A lot of trees and the money only goes so far.
They are spending a crapload on removing all the dying ash. Weller, Davey, OLC and many others have been working hard on it for serval years now. Budgets in Toronto are tight and getting tighter. Police, Fire, Parks and Rec., all of them have been asked to find ways to reduce their budgets by 10%.

This poor soul died cause of fate. It was his time. He died saving a loved one, surely the loss of his life was not in vain.
If you inspected every twig on every tree would have this one have been caught it time? At what cost? I still don't think throwing money at this problem would have saved his life.

Liability. That's why the city won't let you work on their trees for free.

I feel for the ones this man left behind. Sad. But that is life.

 

[Drewtree]

Theres a crowd funding campaign started for his wife and unborn child. https://www.crowdrise.com/donatatio...tragedy/fundraiser/mikelee9/contact_organizer

 

[mrtree]

So we now know
1) a person dies from a falling live branch
2) the city had an icestorm in the last few years
3) the city has EAB
4) the city has a duty of care
5) the city has increased their tree budget well beyond the rate of inflation
6) there is deadwood in trees
7) there is a theory of branch failure called sudden branch drop or summer branch drop

The question of standard of care can only be adjudicated in court but without proof of negligence it is going to be hard to call this death something more than an unfortunate accident. Compensation for the family will likely be based on a settlement.

Will the city change (increase) their inspection and maintenance? I bet lawyers and managers are busy little bees this very day discussing the response and how to ensure it does not become proof of inadequate and inappropriate management. I also bet they are going to have a very hard time massively increasing budgets.

 

[Nish]

The police sided with the elm.

He said that's when police must have informed the woman that her husband died because he heard her scream.
​

 

[treehumper]

This is the harsh reality of dealing with hazards. Like everything humans deal with there are no absolutes just probabilities and risk tolerance. Rob Ford was elected because he promised no tax hikes. Those very taxes that fund all the work that goes into running a city.

How much more are city homeowners willing to pay to afford better tree care? Where will the staffing come from? We all know how difficult it is to find and keep qualified people. Contract it out? Same issues arise with oversight of contractors to ensure they're doing what they've been hired to do.

Were you around to work the ALB contract? That was a hugely complex marshaling of contractors and facilities that involved the city and feds. It was a targeted short term response. What you're proposing is ongoing and not likely to garner enough support in light of other budgetary demands and shortfalls.

Here's a proposal for you, drewtree, use the opportunity to teach your son situational awareness and that he needs to be much more aware of his surroundings and the real risks that are present. I did that with my daughter but, until she witnessed limbs snapping and falling during a snow storm as we drove down the street she didn't believe it was important. That changed her mind, fast.