Branch falls, kill man.

"Any risk is too much risk." What does this mean?

Glaringly obvious, to an eye that is trained, and paid, to seek it out and destroy it.

To another eye, meh.
 
guymayor said:
A living limb killed the guy; is it time for a deadwood rant? Though I totally agree, it's ugly to the eye in Siberian elms.

In some sites, I give deadwood the kick test. If I can't kick it off, it'll last til the next visit, or it's too small to worry about.

The bare minimum in urban sites generally imo is inspection twice per decade.
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I think it is time for a deadwood rant in this case, just last year I was 6 feet away from a 250 pound chunk of silver maple that fell from about 12 metres in this very park while walking my 2 year old son like I do every day.
 
Spoke to the effect of risk in above post. My statement was perhaps a bit too strong.

"Risk, yes we can never entirely eliminate risk from a tree, and they are inherently unpredictable. Deadwood is a basic, glaringly obvious defect that should be discovered through regular inspections, and re-mediated appropriately."
 
Well you have presented yourself as an expert so are you? Surely you know about risk assessment, risk management, urban forestry etc. You have read ISO 31000 and 27001? You have read all the literature and studied under somebody who has decades of experience from the days of Matheny and Clark's photographic guide to today's TRAQ and QTRA.

Oh and you are willing to tell those ISA CAs with numbers in the 100s that they have no clue in managing a park?
 
mrtree said:
Well you have presented yourself as an expert so are you? Surely you know about risk assessment, risk management, urban forestry etc. You have read ISO 31000 and 27001? You have read all the literature and studied under somebody who has decades of experience from the days of Matheny and Clark's photographic guide to today's TRAQ and QTRA.

Oh and you are willing to tell those ISA CAs with numbers in the 100s that they have no clue in managing a park?
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So you're trying to tell me that I need to be an expert to state that old deadwood in trees above HIGH traffic public parks is unacceptable ? I could be a layman, completely unaffiliated with ISA or this industry whatsoever and assert the same statement with exactly as much confidence.
 
My beef isn't with telling people they're not fit to do their jobs, it's telling the city that maybe they should allocate more money if this is a budget problem so that the people who are responsible for inspections and deadwooding get to do more of it, I even offered to deadwood the whole god damn park MYSELF for FREE.
 
Yes Chinese vs. Siberian Elm is one of the most common errors there is. It started when Ulmus pumila was sold as "wall of China" instant hedge
 
Our local park is full of trees with deadwood, grossly overextended lateral limbs, widowmakers, rotting trees and numerous trees with half their root systems exposed from erosion and/or cut off when they put a little paved road through the park (big, circular tour of the park kind of a road). Many huge cottonweeds everywhere. The only ones they've done anything at all to, in recent years, is to remove a couple of huge, lightning-struck cottonweeds that had branches overhanging a small area for campers. They only did this because one dropped a branch on somebody's Winnebago and they threatened them with a lawsuit.

I even offered the mayor some free tree work, to get the more dangerous stuff down before somebody gets hurt. Even though I have a certificate of insurance, they still were afraid that I might sue them if I fell out of the tree on my head. I pointed out that not worrying about the almost inevitable lawsuit that will result (when somebody who doesn't climb trees gets clobbered by one of those dangling hangers) is a hell of a lot dumber than worrying about me falling out of a tree.

There seems to be a certain blindness to the obvious that happens to people the minute they enter public service.
 
"So you're trying to tell me that I need to be an expert to state that old deadwood in trees above HIGH traffic public parks is unacceptable ? I could be a layman, completely unaffiliated with ISA or this industry whatsoever and assert the same statement with exactly as much confidence."

No you don't need to be an expert but you certainly sound like the uniformed layman who runs around screaming that decay or hollows means tree removals are required.

Oh and if the park was so dangerous you would not take your son in everyday. Perspective!!!!
 
mrtree said:
"So you're trying to tell me that I need to be an expert to state that old deadwood in trees above HIGH traffic public parks is unacceptable ? I could be a layman, completely unaffiliated with ISA or this industry whatsoever and assert the same statement with exactly as much confidence."

No you don't need to be an expert but you certainly sound like the uniformed layman who runs around screaming that decay or hollows means tree removals are required.

Oh and if the park was so dangerous you would not take your son in everyday. Perspective!!!!
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Again, tell me yes or not. Is old deadwood in HIGH traffic public parks a problem that should be addressed?
 
JeffGu said:
Our local park is full of trees with deadwood, grossly overextended lateral limbs, widowmakers, rotting trees and numerous trees with half their root systems exposed from erosion and/or cut off when they put a little paved road through the park (big, circular tour of the park kind of a road). Many huge cottonweeds everywhere. The only ones they've done anything at all to, in recent years, is to remove a couple of huge, lightning-struck cottonweeds that had branches overhanging a small area for campers. They only did this because one dropped a branch on somebody's Winnebago and they threatened them with a lawsuit.

I even offered the mayor some free tree work, to get the more dangerous stuff down before somebody gets hurt. Even though I have a certificate of insurance, they still were afraid that I might sue them if I fell out of the tree on my head. I pointed out that not worrying about the almost inevitable lawsuit that will result (when somebody who doesn't climb trees gets clobbered by one of those dangling hangers) is a hell of a lot dumber than worrying about me falling out of a tree.

There seems to be a certain blindness to the obvious that happens to people the minute they enter public service.
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Oh my again...silly fucks
 
It is extremely easy to be reactionary but it does not cut it in terms of professional opinion. Removing all deadwood is impossible and recovering from an icestorm and battling EAB makes things rather difficult.
 
You have already stated you would likely not have noted the branch that fell, this goes a longways to establishing foreseeability. The city does not have an unlimited budget so they must set priorities and as such they may, yes may, be providing an acceptable standard of care. I suppose the legal proceedings may determine this if a settlement is not reached.
 
mrtree said:
You have already stated you would likely not have noted the branch that fell, this goes a longways to establishing foreseeability. The city does not have an unlimited budget so they must set priorities and as such they may, yes may, be providing an acceptable standard of care. I suppose the legal proceedings may determine this if a settlement is not reached.
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I'm not even addressing the branch that killed this man, nor suggesting that it was definitively avoidable because I didn't perform an inspection on the tree, and the limb in question was long gone before I got to the park. The tree situation in the park is not good, if this is a budget problem perhaps they need to allocate more funds, if funds have been allocated, look at where they're going. If they're going to the right places, look at who's doing the work. Last year a medium sized silver maple with fruiting bodies, basal trunk decay and rot, tip dieback, obvious cavities, fucking FELL OVER from the base. A tree that I had reported and suggested action on with the city urban forestry department.
 
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