bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
I see it in writing and believe its from petzl but there is a no way a GriGri 1 will slip @ 855 lbs static....
Blaze and ZigZag okay in comps?
- Thread starter Weta
- Start date
- Location
- Norway, Telemark
[ QUOTE ]
I see it in writing and believe its from petzl but there is a no way a GriGri 1 will slip @ 855 lbs static....
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Try shockloading it, not pulling!
I see it in writing and believe its from petzl but there is a no way a GriGri 1 will slip @ 855 lbs static....
[/ QUOTE ]
Try shockloading it, not pulling!
bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
THats a different chart, there are both, static and shock load numbers.
bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I see it in writing and believe its from petzl but there is a no way a GriGri 1 will slip @ 855 lbs static....
[/ QUOTE ]
Try shockloading it, not pulling!
[/ QUOTE ]
And I have personally taken 30'-40' whippers and been caught on a grigri. There wasnt any slippage nor was there any when I have belayed for others and caught big falls.
Enough force to lift me or a belayer off the ground 20' but no slippage.
[ QUOTE ]
I see it in writing and believe its from petzl but there is a no way a GriGri 1 will slip @ 855 lbs static....
[/ QUOTE ]
Try shockloading it, not pulling!
[/ QUOTE ]
And I have personally taken 30'-40' whippers and been caught on a grigri. There wasnt any slippage nor was there any when I have belayed for others and caught big falls.
Enough force to lift me or a belayer off the ground 20' but no slippage.
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
A 30 to 40 foot whipper will not cause 6 kn. unless its a factor 1 or 2 fall, 6kn would break your back or pretty dang close. Lifting your belayer off the ground, 200 lbs? If that
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
Get a gri gri, break it into however many pieces, ill pay for the broke one AND buy you a new one. It has to be in correct configuration and it has to break to failure.
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
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If you had actually been thinking you would have already answered your own questions as to the hows and whys for testing this and other tools that, in the tree industry, are used for primary life support.
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You are also saying here that petzl, rock exotica, ISC and other manufacturers of devices that slip rather than break have also not been thinking. This is not the case I assure you. ISC I know has a team that does nothing but think about issues such as this. Petzl is probably four times the size of ISC with many more resources. There is a lot of thinking, meetings, debates and testing going on.
You still have not offered a solution or a meaningful test that ought to be stamped on the side of the Zig Zag. " just test it to destruction" is not a solution in this case.
If you had actually been thinking you would have already answered your own questions as to the hows and whys for testing this and other tools that, in the tree industry, are used for primary life support.
[/ QUOTE ]
You are also saying here that petzl, rock exotica, ISC and other manufacturers of devices that slip rather than break have also not been thinking. This is not the case I assure you. ISC I know has a team that does nothing but think about issues such as this. Petzl is probably four times the size of ISC with many more resources. There is a lot of thinking, meetings, debates and testing going on.
You still have not offered a solution or a meaningful test that ought to be stamped on the side of the Zig Zag. " just test it to destruction" is not a solution in this case.
- Location
- Norway, Telemark
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I see it in writing and believe its from petzl but there is a no way a GriGri 1 will slip @ 855 lbs static....
[/ QUOTE ]
Try shockloading it, not pulling!
[/ QUOTE ]
And I have personally taken 30'-40' whippers and been caught on a grigri. There wasnt any slippage nor was there any when I have belayed for others and caught big falls.
Enough force to lift me or a belayer off the ground 20' but no slippage.
[/ QUOTE ]
The slippage on the chart is noted on an average of 20-40 cm. When the belayer is yanked up, i dont think he/she will notice that little. Besides the force wont be that big, since you're climbing on dynamic rope, and the belayer is yanked up.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I see it in writing and believe its from petzl but there is a no way a GriGri 1 will slip @ 855 lbs static....
[/ QUOTE ]
Try shockloading it, not pulling!
[/ QUOTE ]
And I have personally taken 30'-40' whippers and been caught on a grigri. There wasnt any slippage nor was there any when I have belayed for others and caught big falls.
Enough force to lift me or a belayer off the ground 20' but no slippage.
[/ QUOTE ]
The slippage on the chart is noted on an average of 20-40 cm. When the belayer is yanked up, i dont think he/she will notice that little. Besides the force wont be that big, since you're climbing on dynamic rope, and the belayer is yanked up.
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
Dave I am not arguing against testing. I am just commenting on what should and shouldn't be displayed on the side of devices. My position is that there is good reason that arbitrarily picked numbers are not selected and posted on the device itself. The more info they can give us the better, but its ability to withstand the vise grip test would be interesting but is not necessary for me to know. I can see real benefits to slippage numbers but these numbers are influenced by many variables. The side of the device is not a place for them. Is there a " reading is dangerous" on the zig zag?
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
- Location
- Austin, TX
That's hilarious.
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
How? How do you put a load on it that is meaningful? There are hundreds of ways to smash it, but I think that only proper configuration or highly likely accidental configurations (such as side loaded carabiner) deserve ratings. . Help me wrap my head around what you envision as a rating for the zig zag.
I do have vested interest in this because I would like to know. I have taken my climbing devices to the static pull test rig and pulled them until they slide. I go out and climb with them the next day. Then I'll drop 100 kg logs in factor one and 2 scenarios. They slide down the rope varying distances depending on rope size and distance dropped. I take the device off, it looks fine and I go climb with it. I have pulled my devices to destruction and the results are acceptable but I would not want to encourage that kind of usage.
Especially on the side of the device where space is limited and complicated thoughts are difficult to get across.
A side loaded carabiner is rated so it is acceptable to use a side loaded carabiner to its rating. It's also very easy to side load carabiners, one has to be very vigilant to not side load carabiners. If I were petzl I would not want to even offer suggestion of using the zig zag for something other than its intended configuration. For example, by saying it can be used with a friction device like a munter, they liscense the product to be used SRT.
That twist looks nasty though on that zig zag, I wonder how that happened. Going around a limb?
I do have vested interest in this because I would like to know. I have taken my climbing devices to the static pull test rig and pulled them until they slide. I go out and climb with them the next day. Then I'll drop 100 kg logs in factor one and 2 scenarios. They slide down the rope varying distances depending on rope size and distance dropped. I take the device off, it looks fine and I go climb with it. I have pulled my devices to destruction and the results are acceptable but I would not want to encourage that kind of usage.
Especially on the side of the device where space is limited and complicated thoughts are difficult to get across.
A side loaded carabiner is rated so it is acceptable to use a side loaded carabiner to its rating. It's also very easy to side load carabiners, one has to be very vigilant to not side load carabiners. If I were petzl I would not want to even offer suggestion of using the zig zag for something other than its intended configuration. For example, by saying it can be used with a friction device like a munter, they liscense the product to be used SRT.
That twist looks nasty though on that zig zag, I wonder how that happened. Going around a limb?
Richard Mumford-yoyoman
Been here a while
- Location
- Atlanta GA
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.......... I am just commenting on what should and shouldn't be displayed on the side of devices. ....
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I just want to agree with you 100%, unless it is very obvious and specific as to the meaning such as a biner or pulley, the rating is just a sales gimmick and can be meaningless and misleading.
.......... I am just commenting on what should and shouldn't be displayed on the side of devices. ....
[/ QUOTE ]
I just want to agree with you 100%, unless it is very obvious and specific as to the meaning such as a biner or pulley, the rating is just a sales gimmick and can be meaningless and misleading.
treevet
Branched out member
- Location
- Cincinnati, Ohio
"normal use"...gotta call bs on that one
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
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This apparently occurred within 1 week of normal use....
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What is the whole story?
I've handled the ZZ and bent some rigging gear in the past too. In order bend something like that it takes something really abnormal.
This apparently occurred within 1 week of normal use....
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What is the whole story?
I've handled the ZZ and bent some rigging gear in the past too. In order bend something like that it takes something really abnormal.
Raven
Branched out member
- Location
- Northwoods
What is "normal" use? Climb to the top of a tree and cut it down? That's crazy abnormal use if you ask me. We take weird swings and have heavy objects contact our equipment from weird angles daily - weird is the norm in our case, better have the gear that will withstand a punishment.
I never liked the flimsy look of the ZZ anyway, too many pressed together and moving parts for me.
I never liked the flimsy look of the ZZ anyway, too many pressed together and moving parts for me.
- Location
- rhode island
I have an almost brand new Grillon that's been sitting on my shelf for a few years that I could part with for, let's say, sixty bucks. I would love to see it smashed.
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
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I look at the 40Kn stamp on the side of my HH.......can anybody tell me what that means? (Besides almost 9000 pounds of force.)
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this makes sense. since the climber is pulling down on the carabiner, and the dog bone is being pulled up by the hitch. It would never get to that load with a sliding hitch but the test is configured pulling in the same configuration as it does while working, so why not? I see no equivalent test for the Zig zag.
I look at the 40Kn stamp on the side of my HH.......can anybody tell me what that means? (Besides almost 9000 pounds of force.)
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this makes sense. since the climber is pulling down on the carabiner, and the dog bone is being pulled up by the hitch. It would never get to that load with a sliding hitch but the test is configured pulling in the same configuration as it does while working, so why not? I see no equivalent test for the Zig zag.
bonner1040
Branched out member
- Location
- Boston
I am wondering how he set up the GriGrri break... 10mm rope? static, dynamic, rock climbing rope?
Can I pull it between two trucks? Or set up some MA with my chipper winch?
I believe I could yank that cam right out of there.
Can I pull it between two trucks? Or set up some MA with my chipper winch?
I believe I could yank that cam right out of there.
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