Blake's hitch slipping

jerseygirl

jerseygirl

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balancing on the edge . . . .
Blake\'s hitch slipping

Well - here we go

I was climbing on a simple, what i call a traditional system, figure 8 on a bite - blakes 5/3 wrap with a saftey knot. this was a no frills or hardware climb with only the rope and a biner. I was descending and noticed that my hitch was not holding. I reset it, tugged - reweighed it and started to descend again. it got scary when no matter what I did or the other climb did could got the hitch to grab enough to hold me, so hanging there, on a foot lock, I put on my figure 8 (hardware) for the decent. The hitch was tied correctly and weighted several times during the climb, this was not human error.

My normal setup is either a blakes 4/2 or a closed system split tail.

Has anyone that used a blakes 5/3 wrap had issues? or can say WHY I should not use this, what precautions?

This is a recommend (in the rec world) as the starter knot for climbers, then they move on. I use this with my grandkids. I am thinking about going to a 4/2.

thanks

jz
 
Re: Blake\'s hitch slipping

Iv always been under the impression that the diameter of the rope used for the hitch must be smaller than the rope. If its the same size or bigger then you have to use more wraps. I might be wrong
 
Re: Blake\'s hitch slipping

Glazed? Dirty? Rope memory? Different Diameter of rope?

thinking.gif
 
Re: Blake\'s hitch slipping

Usually with a blake's hitch, the diameter is going to be the same for the tail and the climb line. I have found with some hitches that more wraps does not necessarily mean more bite. With a blake's hitch, it seems like it distributes the friction between more coils, and you don't get the hard bite from one coil that you get with the 4/2 blake's. I would give that a try, really dress the knot up tight.
 
Re: Blake\'s hitch slipping

Jersey, its not called the B53 for nothing, B53 bomber is what it should be renamed.

Stick to the 4/2 version its a perfect hitch. If your using same brand/diam rope for split tail and climbing line there shouldn't be an issue. If your split tail was New England Hi Vee and your climbing rope was Yale XTC you might have slippage issues.

If you find the hitch slipping take the tail end close to the wraps and yank it up sideways so that you jam the base coils of the the hitch tight.
 
Re: Blake\'s hitch slipping

uummmm try a diet
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The 5/3 works best on small ropes where the Blake's seems to bind tight, like velocity, and cotton jackets. Stick to the 4/2 for normal 1/2" ropes.
 
Re: Blake\'s hitch slipping

[ QUOTE ]
I was climbing on a simple, what i call a traditional system, figure 8 on a bite [<<='BIGHT' - blakes 5/3 wrap with a saftey knot. ...
My normal setup is either a blakes 4/2 or a closed system split tail. ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Blake's (initial) discoverer, Heinz Prohaska, advises that
if the hitching rope is stiff, increase turns around its
end--which is what you used, "4(+1)/(2+1)". If the rope's
otherwise flexible and slips, add turns at the other end
--which would in the arbo world be pronounced "5/2".

But I might guess that you don't need a diet, and are
comparatively light, and the 4/2 might be what you need;
you say you sometimes use it, but don't mention that you
tried it upon meeting with slippage in this rope.

Or might you have set the knot too tightly by its end,
so that it doesn't elongate and catch under load.

[ QUOTE ]
Iv always been under the impression that the diameter of the rope used for the hitch must be smaller than the rope. If its the same size or bigger then you have to use more wraps.

[/ QUOTE ]

Blake's/ProhGrip is different, in working pretty well
on same-sized objects (it does, afterall, add in one
diameter at the bottom).

*kN*
 
Re: Blake\'s hitch slipping

[ QUOTE ]
.. I might guess that you don't need a diet, and are
comparatively light, and the 4/2 might be what you need;
you say you sometimes use it, but don't mention that you
tried it upon meeting with slippage in this rope.
*kN*

[/ QUOTE ]

THANKS

No, i did not stop and retie in with a 4/2 wrap. I was on the trunk with no area to do that.

thanks
 
Re: Blake\'s hitch slipping

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[...]
No, i did not stop and retie in with a 4/2 wrap. I was on the trunk with no area to do that.

thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty exciting, no?

Speaking for myself, it's PI rope and whether you buffer with 2 coils or 3. On Velocity it's a non-issue, 5:3, 4:2, whatever, just tie a Blakes and it holds. But on PI I use 2 buffer coils with 3 on top. If I use 3 buffer coils it slips.
 
Re: Blake\'s hitch slipping

I think your problem was that your Velocity Hot seems to have some oily green stuff all over it. Hope it doesn't give you a rash.
shocked.gif


Seriously, 4/2s work well in most cases.

Dave
 
Re: Blake\'s hitch slipping

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[...]
No, i did not stop and retie in with a 4/2 wrap. I was on the trunk with no area to do that.

thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty exciting, no?

Speaking for myself, it's PI rope and whether you buffer with 2 coils or 3. On Velocity it's a non-issue, 5:3, 4:2, whatever, just tie a Blakes and it holds. But on PI I use 2 buffer coils with 3 on top. If I use 3 buffer coils it slips.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats Taychon... not PI.

And, pretty new taychon at that. Maybe it needs to be worn in a bit?

Uhh... that is taychon right? Or is it PI HIV?
 
Re: Blake\'s hitch slipping

Jersey,

Your photo shows a two over three Blake's. You will get more friction/grab if you tie a THREE over TWO. Two over three will most likely make the slipping worse! (this has been my personal experience) Anyway, if you use a Blake's, it's best to stick with a 'regular' Blake's IMO.
 
Re: Blake\'s hitch slipping

Jersey, I got so carried away being a smark aleck, I forgot to complement you on your well tied and dressed knots.

If you use a nonbinding eye attachment knot you might want to consider getting a corner trap to keep things safe.

Dave
 
Re: Blake\'s hitch slipping

Jersey, just curious, how come you dont use a split tail system? makes life so much easier. Also.....who taught you to use a figure 8 on the bight for your attachment knot, why not a bowline?

After seeing the pic, the slipping is more than likely being caused by your choice of climbing rope or the newness of it, the 5/3 looks weird. Sorry.
 
Re: Blake\'s hitch slipping

JZ;

I think TL and knudenoggin are correct. The tail should be tucked under only the bottom two wraps, not the bottom three. Additionally, I have always heard the name B-52, not B-53 for the knot that rec climbers use. That is, Blake's with 5 total wraps, tuck under two of them.

So....I think the knot was tied incorrectly.

Also, its better to use a cinching knot for a carabiner, not a Figure 8 on a bight. The 'biner can rotate in the setup in the photo.
 
Re: Blake\'s hitch slipping

why is there a figure eight in the bridge between harness and blakes? Ive seen that before, it seems very common actually but I have never understood why it would be there.
 
Re: Blake\'s hitch slipping

[ QUOTE ]
why is there a figure eight in the bridge between harness and blakes? Ive seen that before, it seems very common actually but I have never understood why it would be there.

[/ QUOTE ]


In the past, one method of aerial rescue was to have the ground worker take a wrap with the fall of the injured climbers climbing line and have the rescuer then cut the bridge of the injured climber's tie-in to the sadddle. The injured climber could then be lowered to the grouind. The 8 was to help the rescuer identify what section of the climbing line should be cut.

There were many problems associated with that method so it is no longer advocated and thus there is no need for the 8 in the bridge.
 
Re: Blake\'s hitch slipping

The figure-8 on the bridge (aka "rescue knot") has been explained to me as either a method of identifying the bridge and/or a stopper knot if the bridge is cut (which would be true only if the bridge was cut on the hitch side of the knot)

Neither explanation has convinced me to use it in my own climbing.
 
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