Balancing and tip tying [seeing possibilities]

@Jehinten understood, I was hoping to get a variety of different ideas and perspectives and I'm happy that I have! Not every approach works in every situation, and I wouldn't attempt some techniques that some of you guys probably use every day. What you described sounds cool but probably falls in that category. But it's still really interesting to think about and experiment on small pieces in low-consequence scenarios.
 
Daniel said:
The rigging rope overhead anchor and tie off point created an inevitable helicopter swing... how the hinge functioned had nothing to do with it... There are cuts that can slow a swing down under less extreme situations.. weight of the piece and the swing
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To say that his cut had nothing to do with the outcome is a dangerous statement. On top of his rigging mistakes, he simply chose the wrong cut for the situation. There was absolutely no reason to create all that left to right lateral movement with his cut, which in turn let this piece flatten out. His undercut/hinge and it’s ramifications downstream were in fact very counter productive to a safe outcom, and a big contributor to this shit show.
Despite all that gawd awful rigging, a well executed slice cut would have produced a very different outcome. Even the best rigging in the world isn’t always going to overcome really bad cutting. Eventually your gonna pay the piper.
 
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Someone who knew what the fuck they were doing could have handled that situation fairly quickly and safely, even with that gawd awful tip tie. The fact that you don’t believe his cut played a role in this mishap, and keep talking about hinge tells me you are not that person.
 
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You too... simple physics.... the piece had to swing in line with the arc on the rope.. how are you going to slow a piece that long and heavy from swinging fast enough to helicopter around the back side of the tree with a cut... You think it can be done but it can't.. shows your lack of experience.. You can rip cut it or hinge in another direction, but the piece isn't going to move on the rope until just before the hinge fails.. especially walnut which is like most fruit woods in that it doesn't hinge well or have stringy wood fibers.. it breaks clean and quickly.. very little control

You keep talking but you're not saying anything.. You got nothing!
 
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Maybe this is my lack of experience speaking, but Im pretty sure there are men out there who possess the skills necessary to keep that thing from flattening out and "helicoptering". I even recall having the pleasure of working with a few such men in my life. Now these men are some real motherfuckers, so I wouldn't feel to bad about yourself Daniel.
 
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exactly.. you can't do it but you believe that some men you've worked with can... You've got skills, stamina and experience, but work within a very limited scope.. this one is beyond your understanding... Which should put your input in perspective... that was a no-brainer recipe for death, irrespective of the cut.... You like to run your mouth, but mostly have nothing to back it up with.. When I talk about rigging near balance point rigging and tip tying with remote trip cuts I can put the video up to show it!
 
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@rico @Daniel
Daniel does this crap.. youre not going to win. It's like a bad STD it just flares up every now and again.
The butt tie, look for the Butt tie. Something went very wrong in that video. More lift on the tip tie, more hinge, upperface cut underside back cut, competent climber, competent groundie, proper butt tie, and heaven forbid a good solid step cut which apparently has no place in treewerk.
 
Thanks Evo, but Im am well aware of Danny's MO.
In the vid the piece begins hinging to the right and is almost completely flat before the bull line seems to grab. The very last thing you wanted to do in this situation was choose a cut that was going to allow the piece to flatten out. The absolute wrong cut for the situation, which very much added to the bad outcome. Plain and simple.

To say otherwise is a dangerous statement, that could get a younger/greener/underexperienced climber hurt.
 
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Take another look... the rigging line starts tight and stays tight throughout the full swing... There is no cut that could have slowed that piece down enough to keep it from coming around the back side of the tree... the piece was too heavy and the rope angle to severe... It doesn't take tree guy to see that.. Just a little common sense.. if you don't have the sense to see it then I can't help you.. Apparently no-one else around here can either..

 
Daniel said:
Take another look... the rigging line starts tight and stays tight throughout the full swing... There is no cut that could have slowed that piece down enough to keep it from coming around the back side of the tree... the piece was too heavy and the rope angle to severe... It doesn't take tree guy to see that.. Just a little common sense.. if you don't have the sense to see it then I can't help you.. Apparently no-one else around here can either..

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You seem to be one of those self proclaimed know it all fools who thinks that because you don't have the skills to deal with a given situation, then no one does. Wrong. Bad rope angles are part of the game, and a good tree-man will have the cutting and riggings skills in his quiver to deal with those situations when they arise. There are more than a few folks around TB that would and could have dealt with that cut in a safe and thoughtful manner.

I'm just a well traveled tree-man who is very confident in my skillset, and knowing what I can and cannot get away with. I have also seen enough of your horrid stumpies over at Treehouse over the last few years to know that you are a hack with some piss poor cutting skills, and I am definitely not to first person to say so. Some of the methods you preach are just plain dangerous (intentional barberchair), with the potential to get people hurt. You will have to excuse me if I don't take you very seriously when you start babbling about lack of experience, limited scope, and beyond understanding.
 
rico said:
You seem to be one of those self proclaimed know it all fools who thinks that because you don't have the skills to deal with a given situation, then no one does. Wrong. Bad rope angles are part of the game, and a good tree-man will have the cutting and riggings skills in his quiver to deal with those situations when they arise. There are more than a few folks around TB that would and could have dealt with that cut in a safe and thoughtful manner.

I'm just a well traveled tree-man who is very confident in my skillset, and knowing what I can and cannot get away with. I have also seen enough of your horrid stumpies over at Treehouse over the last few years to know that you are a hack with some piss poor cutting skills, and I am definitely not to first person to say so. Some of the methods you preach are just plain dangerous (intentional barberchair), with the potential to get people hurt. You will have to excuse me if I don't take you very seriously when you start babbling about lack of experience, limited scope, and beyond understanding.
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OK...
SO how???? You keep saying it can be done... but don't give us a clue, because you don't have one... You have now lost all credibility ...
 
How bout this Daniel. Put a Hobbs or GRCS on the Bull line and pretension it, with the ability to continue taking in line.. Just under you cut hang a block/x rings, put a butt hitch on the piece and hold it tight. Do not allow the butt to take off under any circumstances. I am actually not there to say for certainty, but I might have put a second butt hitch to use as another holdback in a different direction? With all that in place to hold this log from taking off, pick a well executed cut of your choice that doesn't allow the spar to flatten out (slice cut, some folks version of a step cut, even your super awesome whatever you call it cut). Done.
2 things combined with the bad rope angle lead to this sit show. 1st was using the wrong cut that allowed the piece to get near horizontal. Fucking stupid. The 2nd and probably biggest offense was allowing the butt to drop like a stone. It was the butt drop/movement that sent this thing into a death spin.

How do I know this would work? Simple. I done it many times, and its really not that big of a deal.

I ain't here for credibility Danny. First and foremost I am here to learn from folks who know what the fuck they are talking about. Lucky for me there are many very knowledgable people around here, and I have reaped the benefits. Sadly you ain't one of them.
I also enjoy sharing my work pics and vids of a style of tree work that is different to what many see in their day to day grind as tree-men.
 
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Okay, I was confused on when that vid came into the discussion, I thought y'all were talkin about the fanner man vid.

Thanks, Eric, enjoying a beautiful day for sure. hopefully you are doing the same!
 
Levi.CO said:
Okay, I was confused on when that vid came into the discussion, I thought y'all were talkin about the fanner man vid.

Thanks, Eric, enjoying a beautiful day for sure. hopefully you are doing the same!
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Little milling and cleaning up. Beautiful here as well.
 
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