APTA-tude adjustment

Tom, I've been watching for weeks with bated breath. Did you get arrested for mortaring avocados around the neighborhood?

What are you other APTAers using for manual pumps? I got a Joe Blow Max from amazon based on good reviews, but it blew a seal at 110PSI. It also took about 30 pumps to hit 120PSI. Can anyone recommend a good manual pump option?

Sorry for the hijack, Tom.
 
Hey Adam. Nice to hear from you again.

Sorry for the slowness. It’s been hectic times for me and in Indianapolis both, but we’re making serious progress.

About a month ago Nick sent me a game changer: a 1.5 inch butterfly valve for the APTA. It was killer good for two (2) reasons… opening force and early airflow.

Opening force was less than 1#, compared to 3½# for my 1-inch ball valve and 12½# for the stock 1.5-inch ball valve. Huge improvement for holding the aiming picture!!

Also, it had better bag performance than the ball valve because the aperture gets open quicker. More energy gets on the bag before it leaves the barrel. (A ball valve opens like a lunar eclipse, from one small point on the circumference; a butterfly starts opening all at once around the full circumference.)

So, of course, we decided to push our luck. Nick sent a 1 inch butterfly and I tried it with different pressure chambers. I’ve now built the APTA with four different valves (1.5” ball and butter, 1.0” ball and butter) and four different pressure chambers (2”x2’,1”x6’,1”x4’,1”x3’).

After all the testing here’s the best configuration for me, personally:
APTA1.JPG


APTA2.JPG

Here’s what you’re looking at: stock TS barrel with BSA red dot, reducer, 1-inch butterfly, 1” x 3’ galvy chamber, galvy end cap, in a cheap 4’ Sig Saur/Plano gun case ($15 used). The gives me 165psi and 120-140’ with a 12g cartridge. When I want to push it, I use 16g for 210psi and 140-170’. These numbers are with a Stein 14oz bag. For several reasons, I favor it over the 12oz Weaver.

I’m never going back to the slingshot. I’ve had it for four years and every year I keep getting better with it. But that’s the problem, isn’t it?! After two months, I’m deadly with the APTA!

What I’m showing here works for me. There’s still a mountain of work for TS to turn it into a real product, ready for a production environment. For example, I favor the RedDot because of a very specific eye condition. There may be better choices for rough and tumble production.

Also, I favor the two-piece “Mortar” fired style of shooting. For me, it’s steadier and I lose less energy to recoil. A production guy with a burly frame might be faster with a one-piece “Rifle” fired style. This is the market knowledge where TreeStuff will work its magic.

Your question about bike pumps is right on, Adam. They aren’t all the same. I’ll post some into that could be useful.

Regards,
Tom
 
Adam_P said:
...What are you other APTAers using for manual pumps? I got a Joe Blow Max from amazon based on good reviews, but it blew a seal at 110PSI. It also took about 30 pumps to hit 120PSI. Can anyone recommend a good manual pump option?...
Click to expand...

http://www.topeak.com/products/Pumps/JoeBlowAce ... http://www.amazon.com/Topeak-JoeBlow-Floor-Bicycle-Tire/dp/B000ZKATW4

Pricey, but it will get the job done. 11 pumps on the "hardest" setting results in ~120 PSI...15 pumps to 120 PSI if you change over to the middle setting at 60 PSI like you are supposed to.
 
Good tips!

I’ve used two pumps with my APTA. I like them both, I recommend them, but they are in different leagues.

Joe Blow Topeak, Race Model
200 psi, steel body, rubber hose, plastic Chuck (lever-on with pressure release)
$45 retail, most bike shops

Serfas FMP-969
260 psi, alloy body, ss mesh hose, steel chuck (screw-on)
$120 msrp, on line (I got mine on sale for $90)

The Joe Blow gives good performance for the price but the plastic chuck is fragile. If you kick the hose while it’s attached, it will break. It takes 29/39 strokes to get the oldfart chamber (1” by 36”) up to 160/200 psi.

The Serfas is a thing of beauty, very rugged and a very long stroke. The handle is very comfortable and can easily take your full body weight when going for big pressure. It takes 21/24 strokes for 160/200 psi. The strokes are easy because the pump has so much reserve pressure capacity. (You won’t shoot the APTA at these pressures but I needed this pump to test the butterfly at over-pressures.)

Generally, I’d look for two things on a pump: The highest pressure on the gauge should be well above what your shot will need. This rules out most 160 psi pumps. Plastic parts can give good performance and great value, but you should be prepared with a few cartridges so a failure doesn’t ruin your day. The plastic parts should be easy to replace if they break.
 
oldfart said:
...About a month ago Nick sent me a game changer: a 1.5 inch butterfly valve for the APTA. It was killer good for two (2) reasons… opening force and early airflow....
Click to expand...


I installed a 1.5" butterfly valve a week ago and finally got to try it out this evening. WOW ! I have to agree that it is a big improvement over the ball valve for both the reasons you stated.

200 psi put a 12 oz bag pulling dynaglide completely over the top of a ~110' tree and there was much less disturbance to aim point then I usually experience (with the ball valve) from the shoulder fired position.

The new valve also weighs considerably less than the original. I'm wondering if there is a longevity problem or other reason (cost?) that Treestuff is not using this style valve.
 
Okay so I pulled a bonehead a week ago and just found out today. I left my bigshot at the park I was volunteering at and just noticed it today when I went to reach for it :hueco:. So now i need to make a desision.......another Big shot or fork out the money for an APTA & pump. Thought?
 
monkeylove said:
.... So now i need to make a desision.......another Big shot or fork out the money for an APTA & pump. Thought?
Click to expand...

The Bigshot was a great tool when it first hit the market but, IMHO the APTA is better in every way as a line setting tool.
I have been using a Joe Blow Sprint that maxes out at 160 psi and it does a good job.
 
They are just way cooler looking too. I don't climb anything of real height so accuracy is more import than power. I'm thinking that the APTA is probably more consistent accuracy wise. I'm already thinking about how to add rifling to the barrel and if that is a good idea or a bad idea.
 
I usally use Yale classic 3mm throwline and a Weaver standard 16oz bag, will I need to buy different line and/or bags if I get the APTA? Typically I don't shoot at anything over 60-70 feet.
 
I think they recommend a 12oz bag with the APTA. I have used a 14oz bag as well. A 16oz is probably too big. You may or may not want to use a thinner line to match the smaller bags. The easier the line is for the bag to pull, the fewer pumps you will need and that can make a big difference if you need a few shots on a hot day.

I haven't been ready to give up my big shot for the APTA. Partly due to the ease of "reloading" the BS and the tendency for the heavy release of the ball valve throwing off accuracy (admittedly I haven't used the APTA enough to get accustomed to it).

My first few shots with the new butterfly valve lead me to believe I may reach for the APTA first for a while.
 
since the link shows a listed Max. Water Pressure: 175 psi and the APTA comes with a max AIR pressure of 200 psi so is there much difference between the water or air pressure when using a butterfly valve?
 
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