another notched spar descent accident

At least we are back on track. The intendend purpose of the tagline out here is to guide the stick into the face, control a load that is on a crane, or rigging point and to rappel from a to b. Now in school or the books one may not have the ability to excercise some judgement. The fact remains that an "accepted" practice got my freind in a bit of a jam. If he would ahve rolled thru a few more options then he would be a work today getting in a tree at first light.
 
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Now in school or the books one may not have the ability to excercise some judgement.

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Wiley, are you saying the only source of real knowledge about treework comes from experience?
 
I used to wrap a nylon tape sling with a steel krab around the spar and descend on that before i got my RG.
 
I agree. Although ANSI may frown on the practice, any line that a person comfortably uses to rig with should be able to support a rappel. I think that in this circumstance, we have to start thinking of policies which encourage the majority of tree-people to adopt safer work practices. From a low-input perspective, a tree climber with a rope/chainsaw/saddle can rappel down a spar safer by tying a running bowline than by V-notching the top.
 
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Heal fast. I have never heard or scene that method before. I think it's extremely unsafe.

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I second that.
 
here's the update from another group email:

"Ken has five cracked vertebrae and four broken ribs, but on Sunday he left Harborview in good spirits to re-hab at the home of some friends. He will be in a body cast for 4-6 weeks of immobility. He is very lucky he wasn't hurt worse. When in doubt, make a deep "V" notch, hook down the last 20 feet, or call for an extension ladder to walk down. Ken will be back to the tree industry, I assume, in some as yet unknown capacity. Please keep him in your thoughts and prayers. WORK SAFELY!!!"

for myself, i've never used the notch-descent trick and certainly won't start now. i wish ken speedy healing.
k.
 
good luck Ken i hope u have a full recovery and will pray 4 u tonight. sometimes i rap down on the pull line with a munter but mow i mostly use my home made rope guide
 

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My prayers also, Ken, no matter how often you run the scene through your mind it will not change so please try not to torment yourself. These are but the mysteries of life and approaching them with a self defeating nature will not help your recovery.

You are with great folk, people care for you and your well being, you are blessed with that.

I see some agree that repelling a tag line is suitable. Would this also be the tag line that has spars and logs dropped on it, crushing rope fibres, impregnating abrasive particles?

Seperate your life support from your rigging, it is only sensible, always attempt to minimize risk, modern devices are made for your safety ... use them.

Peace to all.
 
Your funny
hahaha.gif
ArborAddict.

Your so old fashioned.

Just like my old granpappy.
 
Rappel down a tag line with a 10,000 lbs breaking strength? what could possibly be unsafe about that? Help me. Know your ropes, have some common sense, = safe.
That is very different from not wearing a helmet which = no common sense.
Cutting a notch seems very unsafe, i dont think it would have ever occurred to me. I hope he makes a full recovery.
 
crushed rope fibers

has anyone done studies on that? I can understand dirt impregnated ropes being weakend, but I can not see how you could crush a rope fiber. Cut a fiber yes, but crush a fiber? I have heard that before so maybe it is true. any studies done on that?
 
Mark has talked to the author of On Rope about this.

I know from experience that rope fibers can be damaged by crushing. Have you ever pulled a tree over and had the tree land on the rope on another hard surface (tree, rock, pavement, etc.)?
 
Notching a spar to descend on isn't a technique I'd teach a beginner, although i'll admit I do it all the time. I did make myself an adjustable FC but found that I never used it as it was too bulky to have on my belt all the time. Many of the spars I'm rappelling off are large and would require at least a 10' length, not something I want on my belt all the time if it's not really necessary.

As for descending on taglines I don't at all see any reason why not. I trust the line to rig pieces heavy pieces, shocking it to some extent, but not to hold my own weight? Hmm.

Here's a notch I used today.

69080-notched_spar.jpg
 

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THAT'S the way you do it. No slipping outta THAT!

Thanks for posting a pic of the PROPER WAY.
 
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Notching a spar to descend on isn't a technique I'd teach a beginner,
69080-notched_spar.jpg


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I would just like to say how disappointed I am to see so many climbers on Treebuzz advocating the use of both the 'notch technique' and 'tag/pull line rappelling'.

If using using the 'notch technique' ask yourself this; "Is there a safer method of getting down this spar" The answer is "yes". You owe it to yourself to use the alternative SAFER technique. Adjustable false crotch or spike back down the stem using your flipline!

I believe that the purpose of the original thread was to highlight a serious accident which occurred whilst using the 'notch technique'. Alarm bells should be ringing for anyone using this technique when they hear of the seriousness of the injuries!.

AS FOR USING THE TAG/PULL LINE AS A RAPPELLING ROPE, I'M SORRY. BUT ANY TREECLIMBER USING THIS TECHNIQUE LOSES ALL CREDIBILITY AS A SERIOUS CLIMBER. THE ISSUE IS NOT WETHER THE ROPE IS STRONG ENOUGH IT IS ABOUT THE FAR GREATER ABUSE THAT A TAG/PULL LINE ENDURES DURING ITS DAY TO DAY WORKING LIFE. YOUR CLIENT IS PAYING FOR A PROFESSIONAL SERVICE - THEY ARE NOT PAYING FOR A "TO H*LL WITH IT, I'LL JUST RAPPEL DOWN THE TAG/PULL LINE AS I AM TOO LAZY TO FIND A SAFER WAY" ATTITUDE.

IF YOU ARE USING EITHER OF THESE TECHNIQUES........WAKE UP AND GIVE YOURSELF A GOOD HARD SLAP! YOU ARE SKATING ON THIN ICE!

TOM OR MARK SAY SOMETHING PLEASE! YOUR SILENCE ON THIS ISSUE IS DEAFENING!

Gord if notching a spar is so good, why wouldn't you teach it too a beginner? Is it because it is an extremely unprofessional and dangerous technique to be using?
 
I don't agree with you AxeKnot about using the tag line to get to the ground. I've done it hundreds of times. I alway keep my lanyard around the tree but loose enough to move downwards easily. If the tag line were to break I'd still have my lanyard......even though it may be a rough ride.

As for descending from the top of a notched spar.....I've done it lots of times. Same deal. Keep the lanyard around the tree as backup.
 
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I don't agree with you AxeKnot about using the tag line to get to the ground. I've done it hundreds of times. I alway keep my lanyard around the tree but loose enough to move downwards easily. If the tag line were to break I'd still have my lanyard......even though it may be a rough ride.

As for descending from the top of a notched spar.....I've done it lots of times. Same deal. Keep the lanyard around the tree as backup.

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How sad to hear.
 
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