Wow......Arborist Ethics in the UK!

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Not sure I understand what the true incentive was behind this thread but then I dont really no the people behind it, has an unpleasant feel about it though!

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ConcractClimber,

If you read the quotes in my first post it may be clearer to you. Those quotes were taken from a thread at the Treehouse where climbers were stating that they would do to a tree whatever was asked of them because they are hungry, have to pay the rent, have equipment to pay for, shoes for the kids, etc.

I like this one...and he's not from the U.K. but the majority of the posters were.

"Here's what bothers me about all these high ideals in the tree business. Someone says,"
"I'll try to direct the customer into doing the right thing but if they want it to look like a ducky, then I'll do my damnedest to make it look like a ducky." (Old Monkey)
 
You got something against duckies? I'm siccing PETA on you!

matt I wonder why your half-removal pic was in a spot where it could be confused as something else.
 
Here is my full post in the thread Dan mentions. I stand by everything I said.


"Here's what bothers me about all these high ideals in the tree business. Someone says, "I need you to cut down this hundred year old oak tree so I can build an addition to my house." You say sure, here's what it will cost you and do you want to keep the wood. Someone else says I want you to cut my tree in half so I can see the view from my second story window. You explain why topping is bad and how it weakens the tree and they'll need to redo it every two years. They say that's OK I understand, I want it done anyway. Do you say I'm sorry I'd gladly kill your tree piece by piece and grind out as much of its living tissue I can in the ground but I won't top it, I have morals.

I just don't get it. I still say, I'll try to direct the customer into doing the right thing but if they want it to look like a ducky, then I'll do my damnedest to make it look like a ducky."



I recommend reading that thread, it is very interesting, there are a lot of good posts made by all factions and only a few miscreants who resorted to name calling and bad behavior.
 
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RAM this thread and if some muppet is up his arse about topping let him crack on.

And if he still doesn't like it, i'm sure he'll find an obliging climber in the area who will put his teeth through the back of his head.

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I see you are quite new to the Buzz and your early posts centred around correct pruning as the company you worked for mainly topped trees.

From this thread ....

http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.p...=true#Post44882

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I understand what your saying Jon but unfortunately the company i work for tops allot of trees and i'd like to try and introduce a slightly lesser evil.

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I understand why you guys are pissed but unfortunately at the minute work is scarce in my part of the country and as i said, i only want to keep a few more trees healthier and alive longer if at all possible. Im hoping once ive got a few more months with this company under my belt i'll be able to stop them topping and 'pollarding' trees altogether.

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So hows your progress? Have you managed to introduce a lesser evil or taken up a dental plan?
 
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The attached photo is from a U.K. website under "Tree Surgery". It would be good if this photo was presented as a 'bad example' of tree prunning instead of being used to sell this kind of work.
64144-ArboristEthics.jpg


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TreeCo, even if this was a prune, I would not be the slightest bit bothered.
It could have been overhang from the neighbours garden.

I have done this to trees in the past, and I'm very happy to say that.
I'm a Certified Arborist who reads Shigo, Mattheck and all the current industry best practice notes. You are deluded if you think that this is not part of tree work anywhere in the world.

TreeCo - Arboriculture is a western luxury, carried out by affluent societys who have extra money in the bank to spend on this type of service.

You are taking yourself and this thread too seriously.
We, as arborists, on the whole only exist because of wealthy people.

Your losing credibility TreeCo, I thought you were being constructive with this post in the beginning.

Now your just becoming a parody of yourself. Its sad really. Almost desperate.
 
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TreeCo, even if this was a prune, I would not be the slightest bit bothered.
It could have been overhang from the neighbours garden.

I have done this to trees in the past, and I'm very happy to say that.
I'm a Certified Arborist who reads Shigo, Mattheck and all the current industry best practice notes.


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Axeknot it's sad to hear you wouldn't be the slightest bit bothered.

If you read all the current industry best practice notes than you should know better and be ashamed, and I'm very happy to say that. I hope the check didn't bounce!
 
I'd like to venture a theroy, shock horror the reason we all post on these forums is because WE GIVE A BLOODY S*IT !!

If not then why post better to go out door knocking eh ?

I bet 99.9% of us has Shigo on the bookshelf.

Can we PLEASE kill this pointless thread now ??
 
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I'd like to venture a theroy, shock horror the reason we all post on these forums is because WE GIVE A BLOODY S*IT !!


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I dont.

In fact, I hate trees.

I just pretend to like them to make money.

I would love to live in the U.K. where the entire tree population has been decimated by the common or garden tree surgeon.

Is a 'theroy' like a 'Leroy' - that guy that was in the T.V. show 'Fame'
 
ha ha well its shame you dont axe not.trees have been managed in this country for centuries..burnham beaches and the oaks at windsor are a good example and they would never be there age if they hadnt been topped,just a thought.
Also the fact we have more people per square mile now than japan has probably resulted in most trees been worked on,some badly in the past so its up to us to do the best we can but peoples intolerance of trees,lack of light and dropping foiliage are all against us(like ekkas pool!)
I got a phone call from a customer who wants her 70ft limes re topped they where done 15 years ago...the damage has been done,id made an planning aplicaition to reduce the trees by 15% to make the regrowth safe she wanted them redone back further for light to where they originally had been done,after id thought id talked her in to doing it the right way now i have to do the applicaition again becouse they have decided they want them down by 30%...i have tried my hardest explained they would grow straight back thicker,weaker ect ect.... and planning cant object becouse the current regrowth is weak so what do i do ??? ive turned down to much work becouse its against my ethics but this one ill have to do other wise some one else will and i will lose a loyal customer who spends a lot of money every year on her trees usually taking my advice.
 
Hey TreeCo, that tree in the pic looks like a back to fence line job like I get here a lot.

But decay isn't a worry here and compartmentalisation is good except for the softer species like poincianas.

I cant help but notice the die back or stag headedness on the LH side ... the trees growing in concrete!

What sort of tree is that? And are those sizeable wounds going to seal or decay or what?

I bet that the guy in the LH townhouse wanted more light.

With species like poplar which grow tall till they bust ... what type of pruning could you do to reduce them without topping and having them regrow?

We got this junk tree here called pencil willow and it grows tall and thin. They bust a lot and rot out at the base ... many of them have been topped at heights usually around 6' to 10'. The tree (if you can call it that) doesn't offer much in the way of targets or crotches to cut to for a preferred reduction. Is this what your limes and poplars are like?

I dont top them, I just remove them. I figure if the customer wants a 6' high stick then he can easily plonk one in the hole after I've finished stump grinding.
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Hey TreeCo, that tree in the pic looks like a back to fence line job like I get here a lot.

But decay isn't a worry here and compartmentalisation is good except for the softer species like poincianas.

I cant help but notice the die back or stag headedness on the LH side ... the trees growing in concrete!

What sort of tree is that? And are those sizeable wounds going to seal or decay or what?

I bet that the guy in the LH townhouse wanted more light.



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IT'S A BLUDDY TAKE DOWN FOR THE 3RD TIME
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I find it interesting that some "arborists" think that morals or ethics = doing what is best for the tree.

May I also throw a Bull$hit flag on that play?

I always found it to be balancing what the tree needs with what the homeowner needs.

Nit picking deadwood does sweet F-all for a trees health. It does a lot for it in that then the owner views it as more aesthetically pleasing. Thus an asset to his yard, and he keeps it for the future.

I have done a bunch of psychological security cuts (psychologische sicherheits schnitt) that do F-all for the tree. But I go and reduce a lead over the house so the homeowner feels the tree is safer eventhough it was fine to begin with. But to begin with, he wanted a removal.

Point is NONE of that $hit is good for a tree. The best thing for the tree would have been to not touch it. But sometimes, we have to cater to the needs of our customers. Crazy thought for people in the service industry.

I choose to lay out all the options for a customer, let them decide where to spend their money. And yes, if they want it to look like a duck.......

It is tree work, not rocket science and dang sure not an alter of Pure Tree Care Ethics to martyr yourself on like so many online "tree professionals" choose to do.

Take care of it, take it out, go home safe, have a beer, etc but don't make it what it isn't. Eventually, we all have to realize that most trees will be healthy and out live us not because of what we do, but in spite of what we do. An that my friend is a fact.
 
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