Wow......Arborist Ethics in the UK!
- Thread starter TreeCo
- Start date
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
[ QUOTE ]
Nathan wrote:
I find it interesting that some "arborists" think that morals or ethics = doing what is best for the tree.
May I also throw a Bull$hit flag on that play?
I always found it to be balancing what the tree needs with what the homeowner needs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nate I like your statement about balancing what the tree needs with what the homeowner needs.
It's a shame most of the bros in that thread add a strongly expressed third variable to your equation as evidenced in their below statements:
<font color="red">"sorry mate, but thats bollocks. you'd turn down a job if you were short of work and needed to feed your family would you?"
"dignity dont pay electricity bills thats for sure"
"but at the end of the day i have to do whats on the job sheet"
you can keep your dignity, i'll have my tv, dishwasher"
"I'm ashamed to admit that I too have done what you just did."
"Here's what bothers me about all these high ideals in the tree business. Someone says,"
"I'll try to direct the customer into doing the right thing but if they want it to look like a ducky, then I'll do my damnedest to make it look like a ducky." (Old Monkey)
"I'm with Steve, Darin etc. I have 3 kids and a mortgage and for Ekka to compare that with shooting comeone becasue your told to is a bit harsh. "
"if i walked away from topping jobs on a moral basis i too might have time to waste shooting video instead of actually working and earning a living"
"f they still insist in having the guts ripped out of the tree ie topped I WILL DO IT,I COULDN'T CARELESS I DON'T HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE TREES..
I have a business to run an emplyee to pay ,kit to pay for,a subby to pay etc etc,IM NOT GOING TO DECLINE WORK and fill the opositions pockets."
"Busines is business where ever you are john." (Roller)
"What home owners do to there trees is really no concern of mine" (Roller)
"I have a house morgage of over one hundred thousand pounds and two kids!
I cannot afford to take a moral high ground if I did I would be a fool." (High Scale) </font>
==============================================
John Stewart had a great reponse to Steve Bullman in that thread.
<font color="blue">
SteveBullman wrote:
sorry mate, but thats bollocks.
you'd turn down a job if you were short of work and needed to feed your family would you?
John Stewart replied:
Actually that is Bollocks cause there is plenty of work!
And if you got to work from one job to the next to eat you better get another job cause your doing this all wrong
My two cents
Later
</font>
Nathan wrote:
I find it interesting that some "arborists" think that morals or ethics = doing what is best for the tree.
May I also throw a Bull$hit flag on that play?
I always found it to be balancing what the tree needs with what the homeowner needs.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nate I like your statement about balancing what the tree needs with what the homeowner needs.
It's a shame most of the bros in that thread add a strongly expressed third variable to your equation as evidenced in their below statements:
<font color="red">"sorry mate, but thats bollocks. you'd turn down a job if you were short of work and needed to feed your family would you?"
"dignity dont pay electricity bills thats for sure"
"but at the end of the day i have to do whats on the job sheet"
you can keep your dignity, i'll have my tv, dishwasher"
"I'm ashamed to admit that I too have done what you just did."
"Here's what bothers me about all these high ideals in the tree business. Someone says,"
"I'll try to direct the customer into doing the right thing but if they want it to look like a ducky, then I'll do my damnedest to make it look like a ducky." (Old Monkey)
"I'm with Steve, Darin etc. I have 3 kids and a mortgage and for Ekka to compare that with shooting comeone becasue your told to is a bit harsh. "
"if i walked away from topping jobs on a moral basis i too might have time to waste shooting video instead of actually working and earning a living"
"f they still insist in having the guts ripped out of the tree ie topped I WILL DO IT,I COULDN'T CARELESS I DON'T HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE TREES..
I have a business to run an emplyee to pay ,kit to pay for,a subby to pay etc etc,IM NOT GOING TO DECLINE WORK and fill the opositions pockets."
"Busines is business where ever you are john." (Roller)
"What home owners do to there trees is really no concern of mine" (Roller)
"I have a house morgage of over one hundred thousand pounds and two kids!
I cannot afford to take a moral high ground if I did I would be a fool." (High Scale) </font>
==============================================
John Stewart had a great reponse to Steve Bullman in that thread.
<font color="blue">
SteveBullman wrote:
sorry mate, but thats bollocks.
you'd turn down a job if you were short of work and needed to feed your family would you?
John Stewart replied:
Actually that is Bollocks cause there is plenty of work!
And if you got to work from one job to the next to eat you better get another job cause your doing this all wrong
My two cents
Later
</font>
and obviously john stewart has worldwide knowledge of local work availability
[ QUOTE ]
This whole thread is something else. Let's just move on, huh?
[/ QUOTE ]
get the hint treeco, this is my last post on this thread.
if you want to think im a hack thats just fine by me. but everytime you quote me and try to make me look like a c**t you're just digging a hole deeper for yourself, keep that in mind.
sorry mark, tom.
This whole thread is something else. Let's just move on, huh?
[/ QUOTE ]
get the hint treeco, this is my last post on this thread.
if you want to think im a hack thats just fine by me. but everytime you quote me and try to make me look like a c**t you're just digging a hole deeper for yourself, keep that in mind.
sorry mark, tom.
[ QUOTE ]
And if you got to work from one job to the next to eat.
</font>
[/ QUOTE ]
This is what everyone of us does to a greater or lesser extent.
TreeCo, think of it like this........If there was a major worldwide recession.
What is going to be one of the first jobs to disappear?
Thats right, arboriculture.
You'll have to be a coalminer.
What you gonna do if that happens? Like the rest of us your ethical standpoint on this kind of issue would change.
And if you got to work from one job to the next to eat.
</font>
[/ QUOTE ]
This is what everyone of us does to a greater or lesser extent.
TreeCo, think of it like this........If there was a major worldwide recession.
What is going to be one of the first jobs to disappear?
Thats right, arboriculture.
You'll have to be a coalminer.
What you gonna do if that happens? Like the rest of us your ethical standpoint on this kind of issue would change.
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
[ QUOTE ]
if you want to think im a hack thats just fine by me. but everytime you quote me and try to make me look like a c**t you're just digging a hole deeper for yourself, keep that in mind.
sorry mark, tom.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think you are a hack Steve. I do think you and others said some really stupid stuff in that thread though.
if you want to think im a hack thats just fine by me. but everytime you quote me and try to make me look like a c**t you're just digging a hole deeper for yourself, keep that in mind.
sorry mark, tom.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think you are a hack Steve. I do think you and others said some really stupid stuff in that thread though.
Ladies and Gentlemen,
The Worldwide Arboriculture Association has just announced the winner of The Most Ethically Correct Arborist Award!
Through his tireless and ceaseless work at Treebuzz on the "Wow! Arborist Ethics in UK Post'
Our very own TreeCo has shown how dedication and willingness to overcome ignorance within the industry can be achieved by intelligent and thought-provoking language.
Thank you TreeCo, and Congratulations!
We chose the following quote from TreeCo as an example of his truly brilliant gift for the english language;
"I do think you and others said some really stupid stuff in that thread though"
The Worldwide Arboriculture Association has just announced the winner of The Most Ethically Correct Arborist Award!
Through his tireless and ceaseless work at Treebuzz on the "Wow! Arborist Ethics in UK Post'
Our very own TreeCo has shown how dedication and willingness to overcome ignorance within the industry can be achieved by intelligent and thought-provoking language.
Thank you TreeCo, and Congratulations!
We chose the following quote from TreeCo as an example of his truly brilliant gift for the english language;
"I do think you and others said some really stupid stuff in that thread though"
- Location
- Plymouth, Devon, England
[ QUOTE ]
So hows your progress? Have you managed to introduce a lesser evil or taken up a dental plan?
[/ QUOTE ]
I've managed to introduce the lesser evil a bit, but on the other hand we still flat top a fair few trees. What the boss says goes, he pays my wages after all.
So hows your progress? Have you managed to introduce a lesser evil or taken up a dental plan?
[/ QUOTE ]
I've managed to introduce the lesser evil a bit, but on the other hand we still flat top a fair few trees. What the boss says goes, he pays my wages after all.
Janner
Doesn't UK have good protection laws or are the trees he's topping coming in under the radar?
Problem here is few tree protection orders means no fines ... but try topping on the Gold Coast or Sydney etc you'll soon be in hot water.
Many trees here left to their own devices will be pruned by nature.
Many trees here in a normal season will droop to the ground (poinciana's for example) or grow abundantly till flowering when the weight of flowers break branches (corymbia phytocarpa, grevilleas, callistemons and even melaleuca's).
Many trees also do fine if left alone (norfolks for example).
Every tree will benefit from soil improvement in the urban environment, decompaction, aeration and mulching but I bet for every one of those tools there's 100 chainsaws out there.
The problem is arborists not taking a holistic approach to tree management right down to species, site selection and nursery stock. I think this is the area that needs most work and then perhaps in 20 years time we wont have as many bits to cut off.
Doesn't UK have good protection laws or are the trees he's topping coming in under the radar?
Problem here is few tree protection orders means no fines ... but try topping on the Gold Coast or Sydney etc you'll soon be in hot water.
Many trees here left to their own devices will be pruned by nature.
Many trees here in a normal season will droop to the ground (poinciana's for example) or grow abundantly till flowering when the weight of flowers break branches (corymbia phytocarpa, grevilleas, callistemons and even melaleuca's).
Many trees also do fine if left alone (norfolks for example).
Every tree will benefit from soil improvement in the urban environment, decompaction, aeration and mulching but I bet for every one of those tools there's 100 chainsaws out there.
The problem is arborists not taking a holistic approach to tree management right down to species, site selection and nursery stock. I think this is the area that needs most work and then perhaps in 20 years time we wont have as many bits to cut off.
A list quotes out of context and abridged so they give a different meaning is useless. I am actually happy that you unearthed that thread Dan, I think it is a classic. It is a shame that you couldn't participate in that thread when it took place. I still think it is wrong to rule out topping trees altogether. There are situations in which it is the best choice for the customer. That said, I have only topped one tree in two years and that was because half the canopy was knocked out in a wind storm.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
I have only topped one tree in two years and that was because half the canopy was knocked out in a wind storm.
That isn't topping...that is storm reconstruction. IN the end the tree may looked topped but you can't call it topping because your intentions when you started the job are different.
That isn't topping...that is storm reconstruction. IN the end the tree may looked topped but you can't call it topping because your intentions when you started the job are different.
- Location
- Netherlands
[ QUOTE ]
I have only topped one tree in two years and that was because half the canopy was knocked out in a wind storm.
That isn't topping...that is storm reconstruction. IN the end the tree may looked topped but you can't call it topping because your intentions when you started the job are different.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tom,
I top trees to prevent storm damage... That way i am ahead of reconstruction after storms. Because you top a healthy tree its much saver to climb and no dangerous broken limbs or split wood to climb. And certainly no damage from failed limbs on property.
This sure is a endless debate here.....
I have only topped one tree in two years and that was because half the canopy was knocked out in a wind storm.
That isn't topping...that is storm reconstruction. IN the end the tree may looked topped but you can't call it topping because your intentions when you started the job are different.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tom,
I top trees to prevent storm damage... That way i am ahead of reconstruction after storms. Because you top a healthy tree its much saver to climb and no dangerous broken limbs or split wood to climb. And certainly no damage from failed limbs on property.
This sure is a endless debate here.....
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
[ QUOTE ]
"I have only topped one tree in two years and that was because half the canopy was knocked out in a wind storm."
That isn't topping...that is storm reconstruction. IN the end the tree may looked topped but you can't call it topping because your intentions when you started the job are different.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good point Tom and it highlights that some arborist don't even know what topping is. It's a safe bet that OM hasn't taken the basic step of becoming an ISA certified arborist, yet is in the business of selling tree services.
It's a shame the original thread at the Treehouse is now missing it's photo attachments. It 'was' a great thread but it has been stripped of it's most damning postings and photos. Funny how that works.
"I have only topped one tree in two years and that was because half the canopy was knocked out in a wind storm."
That isn't topping...that is storm reconstruction. IN the end the tree may looked topped but you can't call it topping because your intentions when you started the job are different.
[/ QUOTE ]
Good point Tom and it highlights that some arborist don't even know what topping is. It's a safe bet that OM hasn't taken the basic step of becoming an ISA certified arborist, yet is in the business of selling tree services.
It's a shame the original thread at the Treehouse is now missing it's photo attachments. It 'was' a great thread but it has been stripped of it's most damning postings and photos. Funny how that works.
- Location
- SE UK
That was the whole bloody point of that thread Dan in that Eric couldn't grasp the difference between topping and pollarding etc or reducing conifer hedges which is a fairly brutal practise. And as Old Monket said you have posted all those quotes out of context it's meaningless.
I think this thread has said all it is ever going to say.
What do you think?
Seeing how Treebuzz is a democratic state lets have a wee vote!
The vote will run for one week.
Do you all agree if the number of people who want it locked is higher than those who dont, the thread should be locked?
What do you think?
Seeing how Treebuzz is a democratic state lets have a wee vote!
The vote will run for one week.
Do you all agree if the number of people who want it locked is higher than those who dont, the thread should be locked?
- Location
- The Great Pacific Northwest
Not just locked... delete the whole thing entirely.
The title is misleading, and to wade through all the deleted posts makes the thread worthless.
Gary
The title is misleading, and to wade through all the deleted posts makes the thread worthless.
Gary
I dont agree ...
* It's not your call to call an election on locking or deleting threads.
* The democratic process in the USA is corrupt anyway, a true democratic vote (like here in Australia) would compell all members to vote on the topic so the perps and victims of a thread aren't the only ones voting on it.
* MB just wants this thread deleted coz it's sitting there like a big fat pimple on TH's face, out of sight then out of mind right?
It's not so much about topping, it's about peoples attitudes, and the bulk of the defensive attitudes emminated from TH so he wants that gone.
The thread should stay and stay open.
* It's not your call to call an election on locking or deleting threads.
* The democratic process in the USA is corrupt anyway, a true democratic vote (like here in Australia) would compell all members to vote on the topic so the perps and victims of a thread aren't the only ones voting on it.
* MB just wants this thread deleted coz it's sitting there like a big fat pimple on TH's face, out of sight then out of mind right?
It's not so much about topping, it's about peoples attitudes, and the bulk of the defensive attitudes emminated from TH so he wants that gone.
The thread should stay and stay open.
- Location
- Austin, TX
Thank you for
someone is going to be seriously disappointed when they find out there is no arborist website conspiracy.
.02
someone is going to be seriously disappointed when they find out there is no arborist website conspiracy.
.02
[ QUOTE ]
* MB just wants this thread deleted coz it's sitting there like a big fat pimple on TH's face.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for your eloquent, insightful and constructive input regarding this issue Ekka.
I will be sending this quote to the Professors of English Literature at Oxford University to be entered into the...... Literary Genius Quote of the Year Award.
* MB just wants this thread deleted coz it's sitting there like a big fat pimple on TH's face.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thank you for your eloquent, insightful and constructive input regarding this issue Ekka.
I will be sending this quote to the Professors of English Literature at Oxford University to be entered into the...... Literary Genius Quote of the Year Award.
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KBNest -Midline Attachable SRS Canopy Anchor.
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- Replies: 6
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