Worker pulled into wood chipper

Re: Lapaz man remembered by wife after wood chipper

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Congrats on running a tight professional operation BB.

But the facts are that hundreds of less disciplined operations are pulling 1800's around and letting day laborers, temporary service workers and illegals feed them, in many cases alone.

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I am just a mere part of the operation, nowhere near in charge of running it!

You consider these men persons who should be ruinnign a 145-210HP 18" hydraulic "whole tree chipper"? I consider these men getting hurt, employers negligence and negligence of the operator.

People who arent trained in proper operation should not be allowed to run the equipment.

The big american manufacturers should file countersuits against dirtbag companies allowing these men to run the equipment untrained!
 
Re: Lapaz man remembered by wife after wood chipper

So let me understand you BB.

You're saying that despite having the technology to prevent incapacitated chipper operators from being eaten alive, that these manufacturers should not do so because there are dirtbag dumb operators feeding their machines?

jomoco
 
Re: Lapaz man remembered by wife after wood chipper

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Congrats on running a tight professional operation BB.


The big american manufacturers should file countersuits against

"dirtbag companies"

allowing these men to run the equipment untrained!

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you catch that jomoco?
 
Re: Lapaz man remembered by wife after wood chipper

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So let me understand you BB.

You're saying that despite having the technology to prevent incapacitated chipper operators from being eaten alive, that these manufacturers should not do so because there are dirtbag dumb operators feeding their machines?

jomoco

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What if an operator is not incapacitated, but a dingbat standing on the infeed table kicking brush? If he gets pulled in is it his fault or Vermeers?
 
Re: Lapaz man remembered by wife after wood chipper

Obviously it's the idiots fault.

But what about the experienced incapacitated professional operators who have died like Allen and Sparks?

Matt Allen had well over 5 years experience, he was the model truck driver chipper operator who followed all the rules scrupulously, aside from being the nicest most modest guy in the company.

How about if everytime you made a mistake with your chainsaw and it kicked back at you, you were dead?

Chain brakes are standard shall have modern safety equipment in our industry. Shall we do away with chain brakes because there are idiot chainsaw operators that injure or kill themselves with them?

How are safety innovations that work on chainsaws to reduce the numbers of deaths/injuries any different from safety innovations that do the same thing for chippers.

In fact I predict the day will soon come when a chainsaw's safety brake will only disengage when the saw's triggers are engaged.

Safety innovations that save lives or prevent injuries are a good thing, not the end of the world.

You guys are just a bit too hard core for me to wish a death by dismemberment on even a stupid treeworker. I don't quite get that at all guys.

jomoco
 
Re: Lapaz man remembered by wife after wood chipper

not what I am saying at all. why should a chipper manufacturer be sued for an operator running there equipment wrong?




what I am having a hard time understanding is:

why won't ANY manufacturer in the WORLD install this safety device if it is really that good? I am truly dumbfounded by this!!! I don't want opinions either. FACTS, straight from the manufacturers of chippers and this RFID safety device is all I want to hear, the rest of the info is nonsense, IMO.

how many operators have been chipped while standing on the side of the infeed table, operating the chipper in a safe manner per manufacturers recommendations?

even the best operators make mistakes and forego safety rules!
 
Re: Lapaz man remembered by wife after wood chipper

Hey BB, you ever have a chainsaw kick back on you?

Should you be dead for the mistake you made?

What these chipper manufacturers have done is the same as if Stihl Husky etc colluded together to prevent putting inertia chainbrakes on their saws claiming that if their saws were used correctly no-one would get hurt.

The basic principle is the same.

You guys need to wake up and become part of the solution and quit compounding the problem.

Do you really despise your fellow treeworkers of modest intelligence so much that seeing them chipped alive is acceptable to you or our industry as a whole?

jomoco
 
Re: Lapaz man remembered by wife after wood chipper

I am going to buy a leather cambium saver Tuedsday, tie into a 6" stone dead will lateral, take a fall and sue you. is that fair? because I chose a poor work practice I should sue you? ill claim friction was to blame and you should have chose a different leather.


answer the ?'s that have been asked thus far by everyone. dodging them ruins your credibility and cheapens your argument....IMO
 
Re: Lapaz man remembered by wife after wood chipper

Some parts of the following experience I have no recollection of, I had to be told where I was and what had just happened. Some of the scarier details my co-worker filled me in on only after he was sure I'd calmed down and would not quit and walk away on the spot:

I was green to commercial/residential operations, but had come from a municipal background where chipper training had been an entire day affair. 4 hours in the shop going over every phase of chipper use, checks and maintenance and 4 hours of supervised use befor signing off on my training.

About two months into my new job I was grounding for a bucket operator on a large Douglas Fir removal. Front yard, easy access, no targets, easy slightly downhill drag to the chipper. Doesn't get much more staightforward.

2 man crew, we had good communication, hand signals down pat, we got along well, too. He wouldn't bury me and I was eager, pushed like hell to keep things happening.

By the time he'd stripped the tree to about 40' I had staged a large pile of limbs for chipping and had run out of room. I signalled that I would start chipping up. Our usual routine at this point, he would cut a few more, then boom down, refuel his saw, help me catch up, then back to cutting.

So, large fir limbs from the bottom of the tree, 6" butt ends and easily +20' long. Brush Bandit 250, not a whole tree chipper, but potentially deadly nonetheless. I don't know about you, but I can't muscle limbs of that size into the feed-wheels from the side of the tray alone. I have to get the butt end up on the tray then move down, lift the limb from futher down and run it into the wheels from there. Still pretty safe feeding from back there.

So I had just started chipping while he cuts down the last few before he stops to avoid burying me in a mess. I was just lifting the butt end of one limb onto the tray while the previous limb was being sucked through, and here is where things go blank.

I was told he was cutting to get the limb to fall flat, he was pretty good at that, but this one got away from him, landed tail first, loaded up like a spring and then launched itself butt first toward the chipper. With uncanny accuracy, the limb flew toward me like a battering ram, cleared the 250,s signal light and safety bar and clobbered me square on my left Peltor hearing muff. Hardhat, Peltors and facesceen exploded into component parts, I went down like a sack of . Never even saw it coming.

I fell across the limb still being sucked into the chipper. The bucket cutter is watching, desperately flying the bucket to ground, urging it to somehow operate faster as he watches my unconcious body being dragged in ontop of the limb. Luckily my neck caught on the far side of the feed tray, hips on the other and my arms somehow did not get trapped in the branch as I was rag-dolled until the tail of the branch was fed through and I rolled off the back of the tray.

Now you can analyse my retelling of our operation that day and find multiple faults with it. I know I certainly have. But I'll bet it is an operation repeated daily, here and next door to you.

Cheers,

Northwind
 
Re: Lapaz man remembered by wife after wood chipper

I'm perfectly willing to answer all your questions BB.

Are you serious about the leather cambium saver analogy, or just frustrated that I don't share your callous dis-regard for the grisly deaths of fellow treeworkers of modest intellect?

I find your position on these life and death matters contradict you in a very fundamental manner that is easy to illustrate.

You started a thread showing off your company's new modern crane with all the latest bells and whistles, computers, sensors, intricate program software protocols, the whole bad azz, latest coolest means of increasing crane safety and productivity our german friends can produce. And you celebrate them invoking the envy and admiration of your fellow treeworkers.

Why do you celebrate and embrace high tech computerized safety controls in one equipment field, and advocate blocking them in another that kills your fellow treeworkers in such a grisly fashion that it makes even hanging or beheading seem humane in comparison?

Where does this animosity towards your fellow treeworkers come from BB?

jomoco
 
Re: Lapaz man remembered by wife after wood chipper

Thank God you weren't feeding a 300 hp 2400 hurricane Northwind.

I'm glad you're still with us and have learned from a couple of mistakes that many treeworkers have made.

Two man chipping with medium and big whole tree chippers is a wise policy that pays off in treeworker lives saved.

Stick around mate!

jomoco
 
I was using it as an analogy, but its not beyond the realm of a lawsuit.....!


last question I am answering of yours, I feel like I started a discussion with Oakwilt. oi vey!


I have no disregard for my fellow arbo. not even sure which of my statements showed this? we pride ourselves on having the newest PROVEN technolgies, working with the latest PROVEN methods, and being SAFE! if one of the manufactures that we buy from offered this technology, I am sure we would explore I and if it worked as stated, we would purchase it.

how much of a financial interest do you have in RFID?

lets see some answers now jomoco. you owe me at least 5 and TMW quite a few as well. we have entertained you long enough
 
I have absolutely zero financial interest in Mather's RFID chipper safety system BB.

And just so you truly understand my motivations on this issue, I purposefully let my patent on my own wood chipper safetygate expire after offering it to every chipper manufactuer in the US free of charge in the late 90's, prior to Mather's patent even being applied for.

I'm all for any technology that can prevent an incapacitated treeworker from being chipped alive BB.

How about you my friend?

jomoco
 
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I'm all for any technology that can prevent an incapacitated treeworker from being chipped alive BB.

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Me I'm for thinning the heard, It's always the stupid deer that get shot, the old bucks just push along, and try to teach.
 
I get it Holly, it goes something like this.

Give me your tired, your dazed, your intellectually weak treeworkers, and let me dispose of their wretched lives through my stone age whole tree chipper.

Something along that line of animal mentality my friend?

jomoco
 
How many different ways can I say it!? yes I am ALL FOR SAVING LIVES ANYWAY I CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!

How can I help Jomoco? PLEASEEEEEEEEEEE Tell me!



And answer some of the questions posed to you, you'd make a better lawyer than a treeguy. You dodge and sidestep questions better than Hussein Obama!

I am done with you until you can carry a proper two sided conversation.
 
Just because someone is experienced doesn't mean that they do things safely. Even if they follow safe practices "most" of the time, one poor decision (sticking a body part into a chipper) can cost them their lives.

The point you keep coming back to, about an incapacitated worker isn't entirely relevant. That is not how people are being killed. They; 1. Stick their feet into the chipper, or 2. Stick their hands into the chipper or, 3. Open an access panel while a disk or drum is still turning.

Incapacitated workers are not the issue; lack of training, unsafe work practices and lack of supervision and lack of maintenance are they real killers.

People are not dying because they are being "eaten" by chippers,(this dramatic language implies intent on the part of the chipper) they are dying when they place themselves into a machine that takes large objects and turns them into many smaller objects.

The media loves to say things like "worker eaten by chipper" along with "freak accident" to describe activities that kill large numbers of workers every year.

No one seems to want to place any responsibility on the worker or the employer. It is always the manufacturers fault. No training, no supervision, no maintenance but it is the chipper makers fault.

Yeah, and it is Starbucks' fault when I burn myself on the hot coffee I just purchased.
 
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Ask your questions then BB, I promise I'll answer them honestly as soon as I read them, really.

jomoco

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Im not doing your legwork. They are laid out plain as day in my previous posts.

Your the crazy RFID nut who wont answer questions, not me. I answered all questions asked of me and then some.
 
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Incapacitated workers are not the issue; lack of training, unsafe work practices and lack of supervision and lack of maintenance are they real killers.


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In capacitated workers are precisely the issue, trapped workers with their glove caught on material being pulled into the machine, losing his arm first his head and shoulder next, then becoming wedged into the unit until found by his co-worker.

Your assumptions based on your crystal ball knowledge of lethal chipper fatalities unwitnessed in most instances, prompts me to ask you if you've ever been cut a check by any of these chipper manufacturers yourself TMW?

Honest injun now friend.

jomoco
 
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