Who runs legit?

I was recently talking to a man named miner from Guatamala who had been here for 12 years. He described to me felling huge trees day and in and out. Making way for cows. cheap hamburgers for america. They would just pile the trees up and then light it on fire. He looked at the large Oak on the property and said the trunk was nothing to what they would cut.

All of the resources are flowing North, Huge banana plantations, palm oil plantations, cattle operations, soybeans, all owned by mostly foreign interests, US, European, Cheinese and Japanese. The Mangrove swamps have been turned into shrimp swimming pools, not owned by the people that live there. The oil comes up here. Not to mention the flow of Cocaine and other drugs basically ripping people off, killing a lot of people and enriching very few.

I think its funny when people complain about people coming up here from down there and making their life hard. We seem to think we are entitled to a life of fresh bananas, hamburgers everyday, maybe with a side of shrimp, a filled up truck and lots of cheap dope.
 
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I think its funny when people complain about people coming up here from down there and making their life hard.

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I don't think anyone is complaining about legal, hard working, frugal immigrants. I think they're complaining about illegal and unfair business practices.
 
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Wheelloader, it seems to me that most contributors to this thread accept that we have an immigration problem, and that we have a problem with competitors that evade insurance and payroll taxes. What we find distasteful is declaring someone "illegal" based on their ethnicity alone. Are you suggesting that most of the workers' compensation and payroll issues are in direct relation with illegal immigration? Are you suggesting that if we solve the immigration problem, that the insurance and tax problems will disappear?

Please share your thoughts and suggest some solutions in addition to the ones we have seen here. I'm genuinely interested in your views.

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Even with the tremendous amount of "education" out there, I drive by freshly topped trees daily.

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I'm in southeastern Virginia, and I can write without hesitation, that we have seen a significant decrease in the number of trees topped compared to fifteen years ago. I rarely have customers even request topping. Consumer education has made a difference here locally. Some local tree services still advertise topping, but the number has grown smaller every year. We still have a problem convincing people to quit topping crapemyrtles, but we're working on it.

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Back on subject...

Who runs Legit?
 
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I was recently talking to a man named miner from Guatamala who had been here for 12 years. He described to me felling huge trees day and in and out. Making way for cows. cheap hamburgers for america. They would just pile the trees up and then light it on fire. He looked at the large Oak on the property and said the trunk was nothing to what they would cut.

All of the resources are flowing North, Huge banana plantations, palm oil plantations, cattle operations, soybeans, all owned by mostly foreign interests, US, European, Cheinese and Japanese. The Mangrove swamps have been turned into shrimp swimming pools, not owned by the people that live there. The oil comes up here. Not to mention the flow of Cocaine and other drugs basically ripping people off, killing a lot of people and enriching very few.

I think its funny when people complain about people coming up here from down there and making their life hard. We seem to think we are entitled to a life of fresh bananas, hamburgers everyday, maybe with a side of shrimp, a filled up truck and lots of cheap dope.

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Back on subject...

Who runs Legit?
 
I run legit.

All 12,000 dollars my company made thus far this year has been successfully raped and pillaged by the United States Government, including my ridiculous 22% WC.

For the record. Id hire an illegal immigrant in a second if I thought that they'd go "legit" and become a citizen. I'd pay him or her as much money as everyone else too, but then again I am a much better human than I am a business man.
 
Hey Marc,

I seem to remember you starting a thread a year or so back about what to do with all the cash your boss was paying you.
Question, did you deposit that cash in your account and pay taxes on it?

I'm betting you didn't.
 
OK, I didn't read the whole thread but I'm not ashamed of how I run, I'm doing all I can and when I can do more I will.

I have, a Volvo station wagon, that's it. I rent a dump/chipper/mini when I need them. I have arborist's liability which is your basic umbrella policy. I don't have WC, I can't even afford my own health insurance, much less someone else's. I have two guys that work with me and they work the same way, they aren't employees, we frequently go weeks without working together.

I take checks and cash and I give 5% off for cash because I absolutely despise banks and will not put a dime in one that I'm not forced to.

I keep my nose clean, bid fair and have happy repeat customers.

If running legit is supposed to mean making sure a bunch of insurance companies are well paid, I don't care about being legit. When you're as poor as I am, life is distilled to it's essence and you can bet that paying insurance companies and other parasites was burned off a long time ago.
I do what it takes to live and care for my family. Government/business constructs have no value to me. I carry liability because I work on some very nice properties and I could never pay for accidental damage to stuff like that on my own.

I would carry WC if I could afford even a ghost policy but it's absurdly expensive and practically pointless. Besides, it was insurance companies that decided an accident on the job won't be covered by personal policies and now we have Worker's Comp. In other words, your only covered by your very expensive personal health insurance for 2/3 of the day and you're sleeping for a third of that... sweet deal if you're an insurance company.

Insurance doesn't make you legit, trucks don't make you legit. Integrity makes you legit and if there was more of it in this country insurance and lawsuits wouldn't even exist.
 
For the most part now. My trucks dont have commercial insurance. That will change soon. I hire a lot of kids to do work around the yard. I pay them cash. I sometimes hire friends to help out on jobs. I cheated on my taxes last year and jacked up my income so i could maybe get a loan. That was wierd, I didnt write off certain things so that I would have a bigger income, I never did get around to asking for a loan. I have liability and workmans comp. My customers demand it. I dont think it would be possible to do it with out them. I ve had liability for a long time. Just recently dipped into the hellish world of workmans comp. I would hire illegals if there were qualified ones that asked me but I do prefer to hire people from my neighborhood. Which has its own set of difficulties, try finding someone in Detroit with a valid drivers license!

IReally dont have any cdompetition at all in the Detroit Metro area. No one is doing what im doing. I dont see any threat of it any time soon either.

My problem is its hard to remain diversified and be legit, i like to be able to do removals from time to time but I dont like to carry the overhead around with me when I am working on other interests. It is a difficult balance and I dont believe 100% legit can ever exist.
 
I think there is a little crossover and confusions from danielsons other post entitled illegal aliens (which always makes me think of extraterrestrials). they were similar in content and i was reading them simultaneously.
 
I probably wouldn't hire border jumpers just because I can't communicate with'em. I don't use any casual labor, both my guys are trained but we all drag and chip.

I hired an indigent guy once because he begged me for work and gave me a sob story so I gave him day of dragging for $100... worst worker I've ever seen, I was tempted to stiff his .
 
Wow...

I have no choice but to run legit... and this is how the market polices itself. I have assets that will be taken if a worker get injured and I don't have workman's comp. If I get cancer and don't have health insurance my assets will have to be sold and used before medicaid will step in a pay my health care costs. I can't risk what I have worked for over the last 17 years to no insurance. Can't put my family or employees in that position.

I refuse to treat the people that work for me any different than I would want to be treated (you're a hypocrite if you do). My guys have retirement, health insurance, make a decent wage. We all pay taxes and are contributing members of the community (for the most part).

I am punished because I follow the rules. My prices are compared to prices of companies that are not playing by the same rules. I am required to work harder and do more (lower profit margin) to overcome this deficit.

If your kid worked for me... you would happy to know that he had insurance and was saving for retirement. If your kid worked for someone non-legit you'd worry about him getting injured or not providing for his family or what he's gonna do when he gets older.

I not judging anyone... At them end of the day you know what's right and it's not for me to determine. My gripe is that I am punished with lower profits and forced to work harder because I have done the right thing over the years. I am forced to carry the insurance because the penalty for me is severe.

If you have nothing to take then why run legit?? This is what drives legitimacy in my estimation. I also believe that being un-legit stops you from taking the next step and growing in business. The attention that you have on "getting caught" or not being able to bid certain jobs stops you from expanding. Bank sure won't lend you any money if you aren't paying tax.

This post isn't meant to offend... just to give another view.
 
How about state governments enforce the laws they already have for running any kind of business. There lies a big part of the problem. I feel they could do more. Agonizing about what competitors are doing or not doing is a waste of time and energy. There is nothing you can do about it. Run your own business as professionally as you can. Look professional, be professional, be educated in the field, get certified, licensed, properly equip you crew and train them to work safely. Educate every potential customer about what sets your service apart from one that operates illegally. Give them copies of your insurance, registrations and professional certifications. Whatever you have.

As far as what makes a business legitimate, I understand it to be that by law you are recognized as an independent contractor with all the proper insurance, licensing and registrations required by law for the kind of work being done. You and your help are not employees of the consumer. It is for everyone's protection. The owner, employees and consumers.

To me not being legitimate means you put everyone at financial risk in the event of property damage and injuries. Who pays if there is no insurance. Someone is going to and it will probably be more than the cost of insurance.
 
Its a tough business world out there.

Even tougher in the economy as it is today.

If the government could run more efficiently and effectively, and able to fine the pants off of illegal operations, it would be easier to run fully legal. The customers would be forced to pay for their own protection, as well as the owners/ employees protection.

Before I knew that they changed the law, requiring me to have a contractor's bond, I was going to be issued a $1000 fine for lack of bond and license. They found me advertising online, and checked for compliance. I was given a 30 day grace period to comply. My bond/ license is about $4-500 per year, more the first year. $3k for GL insurance and Commercial Auto for p/u, and chip truck. WC adds probably, guessing here, $3k. Payroll Service and taxes, guesstamating at $2K.

I haven't had the money to incorporate. I know that I sleep better at night knowing I have some coverage. I work more at ease knowing that if an employee get the heaven forbid stick in the eye, he will be covered for the doctor and disability, to a great degree. I don't have to worry about the WC people fining me large dollars for running without.

Both sides, and the gray area in between, have different burdens.

I have a friend that is completely under the table. He doesn't worry about paying all the bills that I do, but he is always exposed. His is an under the table market. The more legit tree services in his area are all related and are purported to fix prices on jobs.

Ours is a tough industry, for so many reasons.
 
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Hey Marc,

I seem to remember you starting a thread a year or so back about what to do with all the cash your boss was paying you.
Question, did you deposit that cash in your account and pay taxes on it?

I'm betting you didn't.

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I said that MY company runs legit.

Didn't say anything about my boss. He's the exact reason I run things the way I do. I hate him with every fiber in my body. It's only natural to do the exact opposite of what he does.
 
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I cheated on my taxes last year and jacked up my income so i could maybe get a loan. That was wierd, I didnt write off certain things so that I would have a bigger income, I never did get around to asking for a loan.

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That wasn't cheating Bing.

Cheating is when you don't give the goverment their due share.
 
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Wow...

I have no choice but to run legit... and this is how the market polices itself. I have assets that will be taken if a worker get injured and I don't have workman's comp. If I get cancer and don't have health insurance my assets will have to be sold and used before medicaid will step in a pay my health care costs. I can't risk what I have worked for over the last 17 years to no insurance. Can't put my family or employees in that position.

I refuse to treat the people that work for me any different than I would want to be treated (you're a hypocrite if you do). My guys have retirement, health insurance, make a decent wage. We all pay taxes and are contributing members of the community (for the most part).

I am punished because I follow the rules. My prices are compared to prices of companies that are not playing by the same rules. I am required to work harder and do more (lower profit margin) to overcome this deficit.

If your kid worked for me... you would happy to know that he had insurance and was saving for retirement. If your kid worked for someone non-legit you'd worry about him getting injured or not providing for his family or what he's gonna do when he gets older.

I not judging anyone... At them end of the day you know what's right and it's not for me to determine. My gripe is that I am punished with lower profits and forced to work harder because I have done the right thing over the years. I am forced to carry the insurance because the penalty for me is severe.

If you have nothing to take then why run legit?? This is what drives legitimacy in my estimation. I also believe that being un-legit stops you from taking the next step and growing in business. The attention that you have on "getting caught" or not being able to bid certain jobs stops you from expanding. Bank sure won't lend you any money if you aren't paying tax.

This post isn't meant to offend... just to give another view.

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Excellent post.
 
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