Who do you trust, and why?

Sorry to hear of your health troubles, Oak. I am glad that you are still here to tell of it.

Our long time Gov like to drink dodgy stuff to prove a point... that he's an idiot or something, idk...


Here he drinks water from the Animas River, after the EPA let the juice loose from the Gold King mine.

 
The information, like wind turbines, is available and alway's has been. State Tumor Registries are protected now..hard to access.
I'm first to admit a chip on mine and countless other "innocent's" shoulders and recognize highly the efforts to control outbreaks, most of our own contributions to our global fuck-ups. But still, I am what most of you will statistically, significantly, become. Unless healthcare or pharmacy or radiation treatments have become the new world realities.
Fighting this shit isn't easy, or cheap. But I am and many can too.
It's just that we shouldn't have to.
 
oakwilt said:
I fought stage 4 NHL starting in 1991. In 1992 I had a bone marrow transplant.
Clinical trial or I'd be decades dead. A failed trial at that. 1 survivor.
I worked exclusively in 9 national forests..silviculture. Extensive outreach and hard-fought data acquisition proved my former colleagues had all died too. Ages at the time, all my. NHL.
A Dow engineer but mostly a PR promoter at the time, for 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T, went from one region to the next demonstrating injestion by waterglass, the negative LD/50 concerns. He's long dead too, and I still will piss on his grave.
Click to expand...

oakwilt said:
......
Today I fight again. Heart (yes, more than one replaced) and secondary, rapidly metastisizing metabolic response to total body radiation years ago. Herbicides documented by liver biopsies and indexed to the manufacturer.
It's your life. Do as you please, but assisting the poisoning of our dying biome is criminal.
Click to expand...
Was going to sit this discussion out...but posts like these bring up questions:

What is the LD50 of the chemotherapy drugs used? Don't get me wrong...I'm glad you are still alive! But at what cost to our dying biome? Certainly those didn't come from unicorn farts. And if they did, the demand for unicorn farts would be so high, that the only way to produce enough would be heard them all up in barns with small stalls where they are fed nothing but refried beans and have pipes capturing the gas such that none escapes.

I'm not a fan of spraying entire township sections with glyphosate...but how many billions would have died from starvation in the last 100 years if farming still consisted of traditionally bred crops and farmers hand cultivating the fields? I'm convinced there is something in the middle of those 2 (probably more towards the later) and that is what we as a society need to keep working towards. Saw an article about "robots" that will run the whole fields and spot spray weeds. I wondered why they couldn't spot cultivate weeds. Either way is better than where we are. Of course, I have also seen acres and acres of Canada thistle, and am not so delusional to think that there is a better way than herbicides to get rid of that.

Is there need for more responsible chemical use? Heck YES!!! Does that mean we should throw out the baby with the bathwater? I don't think so.

Sure, the EPA has been a burden on business, but Cleveland hasn't burned a river since its inception, so that is a good thing. Pesticide training and regulation at the state level, at least in Ohio, is a bit of a joke. A local company killed 70 acres of turf by spraying glyphosate instead of 2, 4-D and received essentially no punishment...but the other 3500+ commercial applicators in the State will be paying several hundred more per year for insurance because of it from here on out.

We have tools to help homeowners keep their trees healthy and beautiful while maintaining higher property values. That is not a bad thing in my opinion. If we didn't I know people would be far less willing to plant trees, replace trees when they die, or do anything to maintain the trees they already have. That most likely means more turf. So we are now going to avoid a few thimbles of directly injected emamectin benzoate every other year so they can spray 2, 4-D, Dicamba and MCPP on the turf on hot windy days 4 times a year and curl the leaves of trees 4 doors down???

Balance.
 
ATH said:
Was going to sit this discussion out...but posts like these bring up questions:

What is the LD50 of the chemotherapy drugs used? Don't get me wrong...I'm glad you are still alive! But at what cost to our dying biome? Certainly those didn't come from unicorn farts. And if they did, the demand for unicorn farts would be so high, that the only way to produce enough would be heard them all up in barns with small stalls where they are fed nothing but refried beans and have pipes capturing the gas such that none escapes.

I'm not a fan of spraying entire township sections with glyphosate...but how many billions would have died from starvation in the last 100 years if farming still consisted of traditionally bred crops and farmers hand cultivating the fields? I'm convinced there is something in the middle of those 2 (probably more towards the later) and that is what we as a society need to keep working towards. Saw an article about "robots" that will run the whole fields and spot spray weeds. I wondered why they couldn't spot cultivate weeds. Either way is better than where we are. Of course, I have also seen acres and acres of Canada thistle, and am not so delusional to think that there is a better way than herbicides to get rid of that.

Is there need for more responsible chemical use? Heck YES!!! Does that mean we should throw out the baby with the bathwater? I don't think so.

Sure, the EPA has been a burden on business, but Cleveland hasn't burned a river since its inception, so that is a good thing. Pesticide training and regulation at the state level, at least in Ohio, is a bit of a joke. A local company killed 70 acres of turf by spraying glyphosate instead of 2, 4-D and received essentially no punishment...but the other 3500+ commercial applicators in the State will be paying several hundred more per year for insurance because of it from here on out.

We have tools to help homeowners keep their trees healthy and beautiful while maintaining higher property values. That is not a bad thing in my opinion. If we didn't I know people would be far less willing to plant trees, replace trees when they die, or do anything to maintain the trees they already have. That most likely means more turf. So we are now going to avoid a few thimbles of directly injected emamectin benzoate every other year so they can spray 2, 4-D, Dicamba and MCPP on the turf on hot windy days 4 times a year and curl the leaves of trees 4 doors down???

Balance.
Click to expand...
That is babylon to the core. Maintain high property values?
 
Can't ban everything.

Make every pesticide restricted use, licenses harder to get, no more trained service persons, more stringent use applications and certain things banned, etc and and I'm all for it. Getting rid if every pesticide isn't the answer though.
 
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Why not? Do you want to be the straw that breaks the camel's back?

ATH, the survival of a person is a whole different debate, in my opinion. I realize that my own survival in many ways depends on the destruction of the environment and exploitation of other people. That is how it's setup for now and I want to keep living, so I keep burning fuel. But using chemis to keep a landscape tree alive is unnecessary, dangerous, vanity, in my opinion. To keep property values up? We need a better excuse then that.
 
Because many species lack any defensive ability to fight off introduced pests or pathogens.

Can't ban everything. Guns, television, social media, red meat, porn, Cheez Whiz, Hello Kitty butt plugs, vehicles with poor mileage...
Too reactive helicopter parenting too me.
 
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Loss of heritage trees or those that are soon to be endangered?
I'm not talking about plant bug on Mrs Smith's hydrangeas or black spot on her roses dude.
 
Levi.CO said:
Why not? Do you want to be the straw that breaks the camel's back?

ATH, the survival of a person is a whole different debate, in my opinion. I realize that my own survival in many ways depends on the destruction of the environment and exploitation of other people. That is how it's setup for now and I want to keep living, so I keep burning fuel. But using chemis to keep a landscape tree alive is unnecessary, dangerous, vanity, in my opinion. To keep property values up? We need a better excuse then that.
Click to expand...
I agree survival of people is a whole different ball of wax, but I guess my point is that it depends on the value system being used. Who gets to pick that? I'm not trying to argue so much as continue the discussion/pose opposing questions...

So - what do you do with trees? You are pretty active here on the Buzz and best I can tell from other posts, knowledgeable about tree care so I assume you are involved in the industry. What is it that you do to care for trees, and how is that "acceptable"? Run a chainsaw? Is the oil and gasoline going into that OK? What is the point of the work you are doing if we should just let "nature run its course"? Would people hire you if they didn't care about aesthetics (which is directly tied to value)? Is the whole industry not justified?
 
ATH said:
I'm not trying to argue so much as continue the discussion/pose opposing questions...
Click to expand...
I recognize that and appreciate the discussion. My opinion or answer to your questions-

Yes, on a whole the entire (green) landscape/tree industry is incredibly wasteful and frivolous. (In my opinion)

I own a small business with my brother, there are no employees. We mostly do pruning work and small removals. Some planting and RCX, install mulch beds, grind small stumps. Yes, we burn fossil fuels but as little as possible. We do not own a chipper instead opt to bring brush to branch and limb diversion in our (relatively) small truck with v8. We use small chainsaws and also the husky battery saw and blower. Our service area is small, I would like to go to the jobs on a bike but folks want the brush hauled away. The purpose of the work is to make the client happy without causing harm to trees or environment, and getting the cheque. :) My enjoyment of the work comes and goes, but really I not feel like I am doing any great or noble deed in my daily toils.

I hope that answers your questions, I am happy to elaborate on anything. You know I love to talk about myself.:rolleyes:
 
I know, you're practically useless in the post revolution society, there's always the cane fields. Unless it's medicinal or you can eat it...
 
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