Where to put your lanyard when negative rigging?

I read accident reports as often as I can and this has never been the cause of death. Most reports are from a lack of PPE or proper training...

Reed Wortley
CTSP #01739
ISA CA #SO-6953A
 
classictruckman said:
Notching while still tied in above has a lot of advantages, however there have been many deaths(possibly multiple every year) when guys get tired and forget to pull their climb line.
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If that happen your groudman is not doing his job. When I'm on the ground for an other climber I always look at what he does , because error can happen when you are tired. Team work
 
I'm sure tons of guys do this. I just can't grasp taking the chance. That's just me. Totally not downing the guys that are doing it safely. I have to say I'm surprised though. I personally would rather be in an uncomfortable spot to cut than risk forgetting my tip and taking my last ride. I don't count on my ground crew to pay attention to me. It's nice if the do but they all assumed since I've been at it longer than them, I know what I'm doing. I've seen them say nothing about sketchy shit in the past. I take full responsibility for my own life and theirs when I'm aloft. Work positioning isn't always perfect and I accept sometimes it's gonna be uncomfortable and I'm going to fatigue with a bigger saw. To me, it's the nature of the gig. Sometimes there are other options for positioning as well. On this thread I bow to the more experienced posters. Listen to them, take advice with caution, weigh all the options, make a decision. I can only speak from my own decisions so I withdraw my previous post of telling you to stop what you are doing.
 
When you work on the large stem with the 32 inch + bar and you are doing negative rigging , in my opinion this is speeding up the process alot. The other thing I like is having one of the groundman watching for the tip of the saw, so you are way more accurate when notching ( I like to notch really close from the sling). I do understand the concern about having your climbing line tie over the notch. When have start climbing, the owner of the company that I worked for was 55 years old and climbing for 30 years. He use to send the top , then leave his climbing line just under, and while he was descending for the coffee break he was stopping every 4-5 feet and doing a notch until he was on the ground. Then coffee , donuts and climb back up sendind the pieces...Work well for him.
 
flying french man said:
When you work on the large stem with the 32 inch + bar and you are doing negative rigging , in my opinion this is speeding up the process alot. The other thing I like is having one of the groundman watching for the tip of the saw, so you are way more accurate when notching ( I like to notch really close from the sling). I do understand the concern about having your climbing line tie over the notch. When have start climbing, the owner of the company that I worked for was 55 years old and climbing for 30 years. He use to send the top , then leave his climbing line just under, and while he was descending for the coffee break he was stopping every 4-5 feet and doing a notch until he was on the ground. Then coffee , donuts and climb back up sendind the pieces...Work well for him.
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Around 13:25, these guys do something quite similar:

 
flying french man said:
When have start climbing, the owner of the company that I worked for was 55 years old and climbing for 30 years. He use to send the top , then leave his climbing line just under, and while he was descending for the coffee break he was stopping every 4-5 feet and doing a notch until he was on the ground. Then coffee , donuts and climb back up sendind the pieces...Work well for him.
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Cool :cool:
 
Steve Connally said:
I'm sure tons of guys do this. I just can't grasp taking the chance. That's just me. Totally not downing the guys that are doing it safely. I have to say I'm surprised though. I personally would rather be in an uncomfortable spot to cut than risk forgetting my tip and taking my last ride. I don't count on my ground crew to pay attention to me. It's nice if the do but they all assumed since I've been at it longer than them, I know what I'm doing. I've seen them say nothing about sketchy shit in the past. I take full responsibility for my own life and theirs when I'm aloft. Work positioning isn't always perfect and I accept sometimes it's gonna be uncomfortable and I'm going to fatigue with a bigger saw. To me, it's the nature of the gig. Sometimes there are other options for positioning as well. On this thread I bow to the more experienced posters. Listen to them, take advice with caution, weigh all the options, make a decision. I can only speak from my own decisions so I withdraw my previous post of telling you to stop what you are doing.
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It's been said a million times before but climbers make the best groundies. That sucks that you don't have skilled workers on the ground. The guys I work with are the best. They take care of me and know my next move before I say a word. I do the same for them, we're brothers, we all bleed orange.

This thread has been interesting to read. I had a very concrete idea that how I did things was the "right" way. It's always good to hear other opinions and experiences.
 
Honestly ive just made it part of spar work process that if I'm staying tied in while I'm notching a piece, I tell everyone on the ground to check the piece before I start laying in a back cut.
This has saved me from cutting pieces that I forgot to tie off to lowering it more times then forgetting to move my tie in.
 
I know the concern and i try not to make a cut when I'm tied in above but it does have its advantages for positioning especially with a big saw. My ground guys are also climbers and i do three things before a back cut. Check my lanyard, climb line, get an all clear from the ground. If i can leave a stub under the notch to tie in and get a better position then i will but it doesnt work all the time.
 
My check list is the same as Kris. I have a mental list I go through every time no matter what. It's prob the military part of me but it works for ME. Not saying it is the go ahead for everyone. I have never left my rope above while making a notch but there have been times I wished I had. It feel it may have made me safer but after reading all this I am on the fence.
 
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Occasionally I have also tied in on larger diameter trees above the notch. The only reason I will do it, is for better work positioning or to reduce fatigue. There was one time Five or six years ago where I forgot and left my TIP on the top. It was a large Tulip tree and my goal was to tie a pull line in the top, repel down to the half way point, make a notch and a thick hinge that could be tripped remotely. Well, I repelled down lanyarded in, made the notch and back cut and then realized that I was still tied in to the top. Thank God the top did not go until we tripped it. Magnum783 I have a check list too and it keeps growing with experience.
 
Mark Chisholm said:
This is a question I've pondered for decades. In fact, there's an article here http://portal.treebuzz.com/downloads-page (last one down) that was a reprint from one I wrote earlier for TCI magazine. Check the date on that! And after all of these years I still feel the same as I wrote about. I would also say that the two most important things to remember are not where you are tied in, but that you have 2 systems in place anywhere around the rigging, and that they are choked and ready for a quick escape. Above, below, one up one down - not as important to me. I think we all should make the decision there that best suites our needs and gives the confidence you need to do your job.
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Mark I just watched your Stihl "How to top a tree that's too tall to drop" video. At 1:39 it shows your cinched system. I can't make out what you have there, is it just a friction hitch? I like to way you descend. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like you cinched the end of your climbing line then ran the tail through a biner in the termination splice adding friction and making it retrievable.
 
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