TC
Participating member
[ QUOTE ]
Grover relax
[/ QUOTE ]
totally relaxed, just making a few observations that's all
Grover relax
[/ QUOTE ]
totally relaxed, just making a few observations that's all
West Coast Faller v Mancunian Hacker
- Thread starter Reg
- Start date
- Status
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
how about this then dave or anyone..
can you hit your mark without a notch??? two cuts only....
ps dave... please watch the video before you comment on it..
can you hit your mark without a notch??? two cuts only....
ps dave... please watch the video before you comment on it..
Reg
Branched out member
- Location
- Victoria, BC
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'm betting you walked out front to check the face. Not allowed.
[/ QUOTE ]
the goal of treework (especially around property) is to reduce the risk of damage, not increase it, by walking out to check the face and the bigger picture you may notice that your aim needs a slight adjustment, this adjustment will have reduced the risk of damage to property.
Also, walking out to check the notch direction is a luxury we have when falling timber on the ground that we dont have when we're in the tree, we should'nt waste it.
Just on a more general note about how the west coast fallers view walking out to check the stump, as so often is the case in life, the supposed experts couldn't be more wrong.
[/ QUOTE ] that's exactly the point Tim, does standing looking into the face actually help ? And as the tree gets bigger, say 80, 90, 120 feet tall how well can you see it at that distance? Yet through the sights its always right in front of your view. Same with a butt that's fluted....not so easy to tell when you stand out front, but your sights show it how it is.....where that horizontal cut is aimed, the one that counts. I've sighted targets and the after the notch has fallen out looked at it and thought, dam that just looks plain wrong from side on, but thought no leave it alone, and sure enough its landed just as sweet as one could hope for. Walking out front might have thrown me and made me doubt the situation. Since coming to BC I get lots of opportunity to slam big tops and whole trees....more than any other period that I've been doing treework....and I've since learned that I surely didn't know as much as I thought I did before I came out this way, and don't mind admitting it.
[ QUOTE ]
i'm betting you walked out front to check the face. Not allowed.
[/ QUOTE ]
the goal of treework (especially around property) is to reduce the risk of damage, not increase it, by walking out to check the face and the bigger picture you may notice that your aim needs a slight adjustment, this adjustment will have reduced the risk of damage to property.
Also, walking out to check the notch direction is a luxury we have when falling timber on the ground that we dont have when we're in the tree, we should'nt waste it.
Just on a more general note about how the west coast fallers view walking out to check the stump, as so often is the case in life, the supposed experts couldn't be more wrong.
[/ QUOTE ] that's exactly the point Tim, does standing looking into the face actually help ? And as the tree gets bigger, say 80, 90, 120 feet tall how well can you see it at that distance? Yet through the sights its always right in front of your view. Same with a butt that's fluted....not so easy to tell when you stand out front, but your sights show it how it is.....where that horizontal cut is aimed, the one that counts. I've sighted targets and the after the notch has fallen out looked at it and thought, dam that just looks plain wrong from side on, but thought no leave it alone, and sure enough its landed just as sweet as one could hope for. Walking out front might have thrown me and made me doubt the situation. Since coming to BC I get lots of opportunity to slam big tops and whole trees....more than any other period that I've been doing treework....and I've since learned that I surely didn't know as much as I thought I did before I came out this way, and don't mind admitting it.
Reg
Branched out member
- Location
- Victoria, BC
[ QUOTE ]
alright I AM gonna try the puppy dog with your eyes closes stunt fall... like the blind golfers aim by sound... maybe even left handed...
ps.. that's not a hundred thousand dollar structure, that's a glorified out house, There's not much to go wrong dropping a straight fir away from a structure with a humboldt..
AND OF COURSE mine counts.... ITS ON YOUTUBE!
[/ QUOTE ] hundred dollar or hundred thou Dano, the outcome woulda been the same. And we had to pull off a backleaning 50 top first at 80 ft. No bucket or skidsteer. As you know yourself watching and looking at someone elses photos or vid after its easy to say this and that....but when you're up there your commited. You can't just call time out and just stroll on back down the pole. You'd better know that you're making the right choice. And as for you two-cut challenge, lol,no thanks!
alright I AM gonna try the puppy dog with your eyes closes stunt fall... like the blind golfers aim by sound... maybe even left handed...
ps.. that's not a hundred thousand dollar structure, that's a glorified out house, There's not much to go wrong dropping a straight fir away from a structure with a humboldt..
AND OF COURSE mine counts.... ITS ON YOUTUBE!
[/ QUOTE ] hundred dollar or hundred thou Dano, the outcome woulda been the same. And we had to pull off a backleaning 50 top first at 80 ft. No bucket or skidsteer. As you know yourself watching and looking at someone elses photos or vid after its easy to say this and that....but when you're up there your commited. You can't just call time out and just stroll on back down the pole. You'd better know that you're making the right choice. And as for you two-cut challenge, lol,no thanks!
The best pro faller I've ever met personally, and actually seen in action on the job, is Tom Craven out of Lake Tahoe.
He used a huge carpenter's square in his face cut to sight his fall with and never missed, even jackin over back leaners over homes with his Silvey tree jacks.
He was the quietest soft spoken unassuming pro logger I've ever met in my career to date. Guy made bookoo bucks, but sent it all home to his wife while he lived like a reclusive hermit.
It's not what you say, or how loud you say it, it's what you can do on the job.
jomoco
He used a huge carpenter's square in his face cut to sight his fall with and never missed, even jackin over back leaners over homes with his Silvey tree jacks.
He was the quietest soft spoken unassuming pro logger I've ever met in my career to date. Guy made bookoo bucks, but sent it all home to his wife while he lived like a reclusive hermit.
It's not what you say, or how loud you say it, it's what you can do on the job.
jomoco
Bixler
Participating member
- Location
- Nevada City, CA
Hey Jon, what did his wife do with all the money?
Don't know Bix, like I said, he was not a very talkative dude at all.
He did give me my first Spencer logging tape though, as a bonus for getting a big dead Coulter pine down safely that was all over his portable trailer that he brought to each of his job sites to live in.
I got the feeling he wanted to just see if I could do it, to determine just how good I was at rigging strategic trees over homes, rather than simply hooking it up to one of his semis and moving the trailer himself, then dropping the tree.
I guess I passed his test, cuz he paid me 5 bills for the day, then handed me the new logging tape, telling me I was a very good removal climber.
I learned a lot from Tom about felling trees with no guide ropes.
jomoco
He did give me my first Spencer logging tape though, as a bonus for getting a big dead Coulter pine down safely that was all over his portable trailer that he brought to each of his job sites to live in.
I got the feeling he wanted to just see if I could do it, to determine just how good I was at rigging strategic trees over homes, rather than simply hooking it up to one of his semis and moving the trailer himself, then dropping the tree.
I guess I passed his test, cuz he paid me 5 bills for the day, then handed me the new logging tape, telling me I was a very good removal climber.
I learned a lot from Tom about felling trees with no guide ropes.
jomoco
[ QUOTE ]
Yet through the sights its always right in front of your view. Same with a butt that's fluted....not so easy to tell when you stand out front, but your sights show it how it is.....where that horizontal cut is aimed, the one that counts. I've sighted targets and the after the notch has fallen out looked at it and thought, dam that just looks plain wrong from side on, but thought no leave it alone, and sure enough its landed just as sweet as one could hope for. Walking out front might have thrown me and made me doubt the situation. Since coming to BC I get lots of opportunity to slam big tops and whole trees....more than any other period that I've been doing treework....and I've since learned that I surely didn't know as much as I thought I did before I came out this way, and don't mind admitting it.
[/ QUOTE ]
this is good to discuss, as I'm seeing more value in the sights on the saw. I always use them, but not using them very carefully.
I generally do a traditional notch, using the sights quickly, then walk away, look at it, then adjust the notch if it doesn't look perfect from the distance.
I've been very good at this, usually no more than 3 feet off on tall trees, but now I'm going to be using the sights more strictly and likely even mount a laser along the sight line and see how that works.
Of course you have to adjust for bent and side leaning trees. I'll still walk out to view that, but because of your comments here I'm going to be more disciplined with my sighting. Thanks.
Yet through the sights its always right in front of your view. Same with a butt that's fluted....not so easy to tell when you stand out front, but your sights show it how it is.....where that horizontal cut is aimed, the one that counts. I've sighted targets and the after the notch has fallen out looked at it and thought, dam that just looks plain wrong from side on, but thought no leave it alone, and sure enough its landed just as sweet as one could hope for. Walking out front might have thrown me and made me doubt the situation. Since coming to BC I get lots of opportunity to slam big tops and whole trees....more than any other period that I've been doing treework....and I've since learned that I surely didn't know as much as I thought I did before I came out this way, and don't mind admitting it.
[/ QUOTE ]
this is good to discuss, as I'm seeing more value in the sights on the saw. I always use them, but not using them very carefully.
I generally do a traditional notch, using the sights quickly, then walk away, look at it, then adjust the notch if it doesn't look perfect from the distance.
I've been very good at this, usually no more than 3 feet off on tall trees, but now I'm going to be using the sights more strictly and likely even mount a laser along the sight line and see how that works.
Of course you have to adjust for bent and side leaning trees. I'll still walk out to view that, but because of your comments here I'm going to be more disciplined with my sighting. Thanks.
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
[ QUOTE ]
And as for you two-cut challenge, lol,no thanks!
[/ QUOTE ]
do you believe it can be done???
And as for you two-cut challenge, lol,no thanks!
[/ QUOTE ]
do you believe it can be done???
Bixler
Participating member
- Location
- Nevada City, CA
Yes Xman, gun it with the sights... also, now I try to do as many Humbolt cuts as possible... it's soooo easy to get in the 'conventional' routine but with all these big logging jobs here... well, you know.
Hey Jomoco... ain't nuthin wrong with 5 bills and a loggers tape. I bet you still have that same tape today brotha. That's going to be me one day... i swear... I'll have a semi truck, a trailer, and will travel to big jobs and live onsite. Edit my vid, and wonder what the hell my wife does with all my money! hahahaha
Hey Jomoco... ain't nuthin wrong with 5 bills and a loggers tape. I bet you still have that same tape today brotha. That's going to be me one day... i swear... I'll have a semi truck, a trailer, and will travel to big jobs and live onsite. Edit my vid, and wonder what the hell my wife does with all my money! hahahaha
RopeShield
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Just a word of caution from the "no blood, no foul" crew.
And this would apply more so for the back cut and basing the fell on the sights of the saw.
If you are running an older saw with tired rubber dampeners, there is a good chance you can be out an inch or more on your hinge wood, especially when you get into a long bar and big diameters.
The above in combination with other internal defects potentially can turn a tree 45 degrees or more from your intended lay.
Cheers
And this would apply more so for the back cut and basing the fell on the sights of the saw.
If you are running an older saw with tired rubber dampeners, there is a good chance you can be out an inch or more on your hinge wood, especially when you get into a long bar and big diameters.
The above in combination with other internal defects potentially can turn a tree 45 degrees or more from your intended lay.
Cheers
Reg
Branched out member
- Location
- Victoria, BC
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yet through the sights its always right in front of your view. Same with a butt that's fluted....not so easy to tell when you stand out front, but your sights show it how it is.....where that horizontal cut is aimed, the one that counts. I've sighted targets and the after the notch has fallen out looked at it and thought, dam that just looks plain wrong from side on, but thought no leave it alone, and sure enough its landed just as sweet as one could hope for. Walking out front might have thrown me and made me doubt the situation. Since coming to BC I get lots of opportunity to slam big tops and whole trees....more than any other period that I've been doing treework....and I've since learned that I surely didn't know as much as I thought I did before I came out this way, and don't mind admitting it.
[/ QUOTE ]
this is good to discuss, as I'm seeing more value in the sights on the saw. I always use them, but not using them very carefully.
I generally do a traditional notch, using the sights quickly, then walk away, look at it, then adjust the notch if it doesn't look perfect from the distance.
I've been very good at this, usually no more than 3 feet off on tall trees, but now I'm going to be using the sights more strictly and likely even mount a laser along the sight line and see how that works.
Of course you have to adjust for bent and side leaning trees. I'll still walk out to view that, but because of your comments here I'm going to be more disciplined with my sighting. Thanks.
[/ QUOTE ] well I'm no logger by any stretch of the imagination....but I'm a fast learner and I do pay attention to the things that work and those that don't. There's always something to factor in like the orientation on the tree like you said, as well as accounting for the distance between your sights to the center of your undercut, whether you be stood on the left or right side etc, or if the tree diam exceeds the length of your bar. Perhaps you do already but its gotta be the horizontal cut first, and if it looks like you're going to you overshoot with the diagnal, knock the pie out with an axe when it lines up above the horizontal....a gap won't throw it out, but overshooting will. If you do it right, and focus hard on them sights for the horizontal, you'll be amazed at the accuracy.
[ QUOTE ]
Yet through the sights its always right in front of your view. Same with a butt that's fluted....not so easy to tell when you stand out front, but your sights show it how it is.....where that horizontal cut is aimed, the one that counts. I've sighted targets and the after the notch has fallen out looked at it and thought, dam that just looks plain wrong from side on, but thought no leave it alone, and sure enough its landed just as sweet as one could hope for. Walking out front might have thrown me and made me doubt the situation. Since coming to BC I get lots of opportunity to slam big tops and whole trees....more than any other period that I've been doing treework....and I've since learned that I surely didn't know as much as I thought I did before I came out this way, and don't mind admitting it.
[/ QUOTE ]
this is good to discuss, as I'm seeing more value in the sights on the saw. I always use them, but not using them very carefully.
I generally do a traditional notch, using the sights quickly, then walk away, look at it, then adjust the notch if it doesn't look perfect from the distance.
I've been very good at this, usually no more than 3 feet off on tall trees, but now I'm going to be using the sights more strictly and likely even mount a laser along the sight line and see how that works.
Of course you have to adjust for bent and side leaning trees. I'll still walk out to view that, but because of your comments here I'm going to be more disciplined with my sighting. Thanks.
[/ QUOTE ] well I'm no logger by any stretch of the imagination....but I'm a fast learner and I do pay attention to the things that work and those that don't. There's always something to factor in like the orientation on the tree like you said, as well as accounting for the distance between your sights to the center of your undercut, whether you be stood on the left or right side etc, or if the tree diam exceeds the length of your bar. Perhaps you do already but its gotta be the horizontal cut first, and if it looks like you're going to you overshoot with the diagnal, knock the pie out with an axe when it lines up above the horizontal....a gap won't throw it out, but overshooting will. If you do it right, and focus hard on them sights for the horizontal, you'll be amazed at the accuracy.
Reg
Branched out member
- Location
- Victoria, BC
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And as for you two-cut challenge, lol,no thanks!
[/ QUOTE ]
do you believe it can be done???
[/ QUOTE ] well unless its more broadly applicable and actually gives better all around control than the traditional 3 cut method, then whether believing or not, I just don't care so much more to the point. I once saw a guy using a dull saw miss and keep missing his cuts so bad that by the time pie came out the tree just fell over, the right way might I add. But nobody was too impressed!
[ QUOTE ]
And as for you two-cut challenge, lol,no thanks!
[/ QUOTE ]
do you believe it can be done???
[/ QUOTE ] well unless its more broadly applicable and actually gives better all around control than the traditional 3 cut method, then whether believing or not, I just don't care so much more to the point. I once saw a guy using a dull saw miss and keep missing his cuts so bad that by the time pie came out the tree just fell over, the right way might I add. But nobody was too impressed!
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
specialized advantages...
Reg
Branched out member
- Location
- Victoria, BC
[ QUOTE ]
specialized advantages...
[/ QUOTE ]
Good answer
OK, the 'special' secret cut from a while back?
specialized advantages...
[/ QUOTE ]
Good answer
OK, the 'special' secret cut from a while back?
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
again!
- Location
- Sweet Home, OR
[ QUOTE ]
Just a word of caution from the "no blood, no foul" crew.
And this would apply more so for the back cut and basing the fell on the sights of the saw.
If you are running an older saw with tired rubber dampeners, there is a good chance you can be out an inch or more on your hinge wood, especially when you get into a long bar and big diameters.
The above in combination with other internal defects potentially can turn a tree 45 degrees or more from your intended lay.
Cheers
[/ QUOTE ]
definately something to consider! Every saw I have personally run the sights are mounted solid with the bar and any flex in the mounts doesn't effect the sights but worn bar studs surely do!
Just a word of caution from the "no blood, no foul" crew.
And this would apply more so for the back cut and basing the fell on the sights of the saw.
If you are running an older saw with tired rubber dampeners, there is a good chance you can be out an inch or more on your hinge wood, especially when you get into a long bar and big diameters.
The above in combination with other internal defects potentially can turn a tree 45 degrees or more from your intended lay.
Cheers
[/ QUOTE ]
definately something to consider! Every saw I have personally run the sights are mounted solid with the bar and any flex in the mounts doesn't effect the sights but worn bar studs surely do!
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
I've had a problem with cutting an unintentional dutchman, bypassing the face cuts, then sawdust laying in the problematic kerf, making it look like a clean notch. Only happened, when the bar is shorter than the hinge..
Turned this monster oak spar 45 degrees... landed perfectly in a tight LZ, right between an specimen dogwood and a shed that had windows and flower boxes...
Besides learning a valuable lesson, I also developed a false sense of optimism, only to be shattered with a stupid move on a twin lead ash. Cut the corner off the second hinge, when I needlessly over-cut the back cut on the first... Saving that one for the blooper real...
Turned this monster oak spar 45 degrees... landed perfectly in a tight LZ, right between an specimen dogwood and a shed that had windows and flower boxes...
Besides learning a valuable lesson, I also developed a false sense of optimism, only to be shattered with a stupid move on a twin lead ash. Cut the corner off the second hinge, when I needlessly over-cut the back cut on the first... Saving that one for the blooper real...
easyphloem
Branched out member
- Location
- Louisville, KY
[ QUOTE ]
Jared’s a Senior Faller for BC Forest Service, but during the off-season he works with a tree-service company that I also do some climbing for. He’s a solid guy, good skills and knows his stuff. Having said that....he’s 6 ft 5, opinionated, loud-mouth, answer for everything, know-it -all !
http://youtu.be/2lzuaxw9gb4
[/ QUOTE ]
He's got more excuses than I do! I think he did move that rock right before your drop, Reg.
Looks like you guys are having lots of fun on the job!
SZ
Jared’s a Senior Faller for BC Forest Service, but during the off-season he works with a tree-service company that I also do some climbing for. He’s a solid guy, good skills and knows his stuff. Having said that....he’s 6 ft 5, opinionated, loud-mouth, answer for everything, know-it -all !
http://youtu.be/2lzuaxw9gb4
[/ QUOTE ]
He's got more excuses than I do! I think he did move that rock right before your drop, Reg.
Looks like you guys are having lots of fun on the job!
SZ
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