- Location
- Akron Ohio
Wouldn't a bolt and cable wrap create the same hole once the tree grows past the end of the bolt? Or is this a moot point as the cable would be too low at that time?
Wedge Grip
- Thread starter Leroy
- Start date
- Location
- mpls,mn
They're supposed to be replaced before the stem reaches that point so no. When that metal to metal connection is lost you're in trouble. This is the thing i could never figure out about passing the cable through the stem. It's going to wiggle around right so what's the point of even facing the drilled holes at eachother if you don't attach the cable ends to a bolt? I think the reason some arborists use dead ends or whatever is because installing bolts and splicing cable ends really sucks.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
" It's going to wiggle around right so what's the point of even facing the drilled holes at eachother if you don't attach the cable ends to a bolt?"
The point is to minimize side loading, a SHALL in the standard. The movement of metal on wood should be minimized, and that's dealt with in the design phase.
"I think the reason some arborists use dead ends or whatever is because installing bolts and splicing cable ends really sucks.
I agree that simplicity in installation is a factor in deciding which system to use. So is the size of wounding, and even with the movement reconfiguring the hole (considering the callus growth like that shown in the above image, the bugaboo of 'hole enlargement' is all theory and no fact), drilling that big hole for the bolt is always more wounding than through-cabling.
But properly done by an experienced designer/installer, the bolt-and-splice method works. Historic methods, like historic trees, should be given the utmost respect.
The point is to minimize side loading, a SHALL in the standard. The movement of metal on wood should be minimized, and that's dealt with in the design phase.
"I think the reason some arborists use dead ends or whatever is because installing bolts and splicing cable ends really sucks.
I agree that simplicity in installation is a factor in deciding which system to use. So is the size of wounding, and even with the movement reconfiguring the hole (considering the callus growth like that shown in the above image, the bugaboo of 'hole enlargement' is all theory and no fact), drilling that big hole for the bolt is always more wounding than through-cabling.
But properly done by an experienced designer/installer, the bolt-and-splice method works. Historic methods, like historic trees, should be given the utmost respect.
classictruckman
Participating member
- Location
- Ottawa Valley, Ontario, Canada
[ QUOTE ]
I think the reason some arborists use dead ends or whatever is because installing bolts and splicing cable ends really sucks.
[/ QUOTE ]
I personally love splicing cable, in the past year we've switched to the Rig Guy system and I don't really like it because it's much harder on the hands but it is a whole lot faster and simpler due to smaller holes and no measuring.
I would never use preformed ends, they were designed for a consistent load something you would never see in a tree, you might as well use cable clamps, the first windstorm that comes along the cable will be slack.
I think the reason some arborists use dead ends or whatever is because installing bolts and splicing cable ends really sucks.
[/ QUOTE ]
I personally love splicing cable, in the past year we've switched to the Rig Guy system and I don't really like it because it's much harder on the hands but it is a whole lot faster and simpler due to smaller holes and no measuring.
I would never use preformed ends, they were designed for a consistent load something you would never see in a tree, you might as well use cable clamps, the first windstorm that comes along the cable will be slack.
- Location
- Central US
We used the wedge grips for a couple years until they started coming off..some doing property damage. They have since been re figured but they still do not hold properly.
NOw we have gone back to rigguys and have not had any problems.
NOw we have gone back to rigguys and have not had any problems.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would never use preformed ends, they were designed for a consistent load something you would never see in a tree, you might as well use cable clamps, the first windstorm that comes along the cable will be slack.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you're saying the utility companies who've used Preformed cable grips so successfully for half a century, do so thinking their infrastructure doesn't see any dynamic loading?
Do you have even the slightest proof you know what you're talking about?
Preformed cable grips can withstand 100 percent the the cable's rated capacity, that's why they're the professional's choice for tree cabling terminations now for over 30 years!
http://joa.isa-arbor.com/request.asp?JournalID=1&ArticleID=1580&Type=2
Until you can post up proof of them failing in the field?
You may be conflating wedge grips(junk) with Preformed cable grips, which every utility and tree company worth their salt use almost exclusively where applicable.
jomoco
[ QUOTE ]
I would never use preformed ends, they were designed for a consistent load something you would never see in a tree, you might as well use cable clamps, the first windstorm that comes along the cable will be slack.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you're saying the utility companies who've used Preformed cable grips so successfully for half a century, do so thinking their infrastructure doesn't see any dynamic loading?
Do you have even the slightest proof you know what you're talking about?
Preformed cable grips can withstand 100 percent the the cable's rated capacity, that's why they're the professional's choice for tree cabling terminations now for over 30 years!
http://joa.isa-arbor.com/request.asp?JournalID=1&ArticleID=1580&Type=2
Until you can post up proof of them failing in the field?
You may be conflating wedge grips(junk) with Preformed cable grips, which every utility and tree company worth their salt use almost exclusively where applicable.
jomoco
classictruckman
Participating member
- Location
- Ottawa Valley, Ontario, Canada
No proof that I can post, but just about every cable I've come across that the installer used preformed ends(which in reality is only a handful) they were slack, in the utility industry they do see a very static load especially compaired to the dynamic loading you see in a tree.
If these Preformed cable grips were prone to slipping, don't you think the experts at Davey would know about it by now?
I can state unequivocally that most of the cabling systems I get called upon to replace or repair were installed incorrectly by amateurs who had no idea what they were doing. Correct cable alignment, no. Correct cable tension, no. Correct hardware for softwood trees, no
Bumping into improperly cabled trees is the norm, not the exception in my cabling experience in SoCal.
jomoco
I can state unequivocally that most of the cabling systems I get called upon to replace or repair were installed incorrectly by amateurs who had no idea what they were doing. Correct cable alignment, no. Correct cable tension, no. Correct hardware for softwood trees, no
Bumping into improperly cabled trees is the norm, not the exception in my cabling experience in SoCal.
jomoco
classictruckman
Participating member
- Location
- Ottawa Valley, Ontario, Canada
I am not disagreeing with you jomoco especially that last post, just stating what I have seen.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
Bumping into improperly cabled trees is the norm, not the exception in my cabling experience in SoCal.
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
That's my experience in the US, but most of the systems I've seen in Europe and Asia and oz were still meeting their purpose.
Can't say why that is.
Bumping into improperly cabled trees is the norm, not the exception in my cabling experience in SoCal.
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
That's my experience in the US, but most of the systems I've seen in Europe and Asia and oz were still meeting their purpose.
Can't say why that is.
AxeTree
New member
- Location
- central ohio
I cabled a large river birch tri leader with rigguy about 5 years ago, and it got pretty beat up this fall and I removed it and I cut apart where the cable was and it was half grown over the rigguy and was sealed tight around the exit hole of the cable. The cables were a little lower that ideal but due to the branch structure of river birch I had it as high as I felt safe i was surprised how well it healed over
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Axe,
By any slim chance do you still have the pieces that were cabled?
It's always nice to see the dissection like Shigo did to see the outside and inside. The inside is very telling.
By any slim chance do you still have the pieces that were cabled?
It's always nice to see the dissection like Shigo did to see the outside and inside. The inside is very telling.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
and the inside speaks; courtesy of The Tree Machine
[/ QUOTE ]
Note the grievous hole enlargement, OMG!
[/ QUOTE ]
Closer up, it's scarier yet! Somebody get a 5/8" bit and chew out some wood so this tree can be safe--can you imagine the horror if a bug sucks sap out of that humongous cavity this junk hardware is making?
[ QUOTE ]
and the inside speaks; courtesy of The Tree Machine
[/ QUOTE ]
Note the grievous hole enlargement, OMG!
[/ QUOTE ]
Closer up, it's scarier yet! Somebody get a 5/8" bit and chew out some wood so this tree can be safe--can you imagine the horror if a bug sucks sap out of that humongous cavity this junk hardware is making?
Attachments
So here we have a BCMA promoting the use of a cabling product that has been shown to enlarge the cabling entrance holes on 40 percent of the trees it's used on?
http://joa.isa-arbor.com/request.asp?JournalID=1&ArticleID=3187&Type=2
Who refuses to address the issue of whether this product's use can result in inflicting oozing wounds anytime a wind event occurs, including the height of beetle flight season?
This is your example of following BMP's?
Gambling that your installing this junk won't result in landing you in that 40 percentile range?
Do you recommend using this product in Colorado, in Lodgepole pines as well?
jomoco
http://joa.isa-arbor.com/request.asp?JournalID=1&ArticleID=3187&Type=2
Who refuses to address the issue of whether this product's use can result in inflicting oozing wounds anytime a wind event occurs, including the height of beetle flight season?
This is your example of following BMP's?
Gambling that your installing this junk won't result in landing you in that 40 percentile range?
Do you recommend using this product in Colorado, in Lodgepole pines as well?
jomoco
Serf Life
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Maine Island
Bumping. Have folks been using the threaded wedge grips with more success than described here? Sussing out the relative benefits of eye/wedge/rigguy etc
OasisTree
Branched out member
- Location
- Central Missouri
Wedge grips have pulled out for us on several occasions, and now exclusively using rig-guys system. Its simple and effective.
Serf Life
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Maine Island
They sure seem like the way to go. Smaller hole than using eye bolt systems but the cable moves so the tree has a harder time callusing. Fewer parts than eye bolts with wraps but those strands are fucking hard to cut without a fancy tool! Wedge grips just look so fast and easy to change tension.
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