Updated ISA Certified Arborist Code of Ethics

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I wasn't aware you were a moderator and even if I was is everyone required to make comments that are "tomthetreeman compliant"? Now I am required to get back on topic without comment.

What I was saying relative to the previous comment about "positive change" was sarcastically directed to Mr. Obama, the king of change, and the feeling by many that change can be negative at times including this ISA edict.

I agree with Joshua (I think said) that they should do the policing themselves. Men in our society are brought up from adolescence to not be a squeeler (unless it is a felony or such) and pretty much take that to their graves.

Anyway....apology accepted.

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Dude, you were the one that went all political. I think you're reading too much into my posts, I'm not trying to cast judgement, just pointing out the folly of the course of the thread. Often the political commentary drags otherwise decent threads to bad places, much like bringing religion into it. It's really nothing personal.

-Tom

PS - I think I even used a question mark when I said 'back to the topic' so as not to sound like an a-hole.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't aware you were a moderator and even if I was is everyone required to make comments that are "tomthetreeman compliant"? Now I am required to get back on topic without comment.

What I was saying relative to the previous comment about "positive change" was sarcastically directed to Mr. Obama, the king of change, and the feeling by many that change can be negative at times including this ISA edict.

I agree with Joshua (I think said) that they should do the policing themselves. Men in our society are brought up from adolescence to not be a squeeler (unless it is a felony or such) and pretty much take that to their graves.

Anyway....apology accepted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, you were the one that went all political. I think you're reading too much into my posts, I'm not trying to cast judgement, just pointing out the folly of the course of the thread. Often the political commentary drags otherwise decent threads to bad places, much like bringing religion into it. It's really nothing personal.

-Tom

PS - I think I even used a question mark when I said 'back to the topic' so as not to sound like an a-hole.

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Not sure I went all political Tommy boy, but if you say so, you seem to be dealing here. Didn't notice the question mark....that sealed the deal, you're right as usual.

Isn't this an open forum? And what is the folly of the course of the thread anyway? (strategic question mark)

If, as Meilleur says, the possibility of district inspectors is financially unsound for the ISA and WE are the ISA, maybe a group of inspectors from US (volunteers or appointed) that changes periodically, meets with CA's (in or out of company environment)to review their work?

Granted many CA's don't do any field work, but review the work they DO. They gotta be doing something.
 
Financially unsound, because it is conceptually flawed:

who would make the criteria?

who would appoint the inspectors?

when would they rotate out?

who picks who gets visited when? and onandon

one mechanism for self-regulation is an active chapter that draws in members so everybody stays more in touch with what everybody else is doing. Tom (that's Mr. Tommy boy to you, Shaw ;) ) knows a lot about making his chapter work.

Ohio could use a sharp cookie like you--why not join a committee and put forth your ideas in a non-virtual context. Talking--and listening--with real people might be a real-ity check. Or maybe you can change everyone to your way of thinking, and take it to the international level. Never know til you try.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Financially unsound, because it is conceptually flawed:

who would make the criteria?

who would appoint the inspectors?

when would they rotate out?

who picks who gets visited when? and onandon

one mechanism for self-regulation is an active chapter that draws in members so everybody stays more in touch with what everybody else is doing. Tom (that's Mr. Tommy boy to you, Shaw ;) ) knows a lot about making his chapter work.

Ohio could use a sharp cookie like you--why not join a committee and put forth your ideas in a non-virtual context. Talking--and listening--with real people might be a real-ity check. Or maybe you can change everyone to your way of thinking, and take it to the international level. Never know til you try.

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The answer to all the "who" questions is, ofcourse, the government...the ISA government. As much as you'd like to think of the ISA as "us"....we, just as society members, have a government. We are at their mercy and hope they serve our best interests but....

I have offered numerous times to help out (ask Chris Andrews) and have not, to date, been contacted. The powers to be may have biases as competitors or whatever. I have time to help out in events (or in a short capacity such as an agent of the ISA) but no time for a crusade....as I am chief cook and bottle washer. You and I live in different worlds, you can write articles and give seminars, I am in trees every day of the week still at 62 (and want it that way).
 
[ QUOTE ]
The answer to all the "who" questions is, of course, the government...the ISA government. As much as you'd like to think of the ISA as "us"....we, just as society members, have a government. We are at their mercy and hope they serve our best interests but...

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Sure it's a government, but not a dictatorship. Member-led committees have a lot to say about policy, and committee members ime are very open to constructive input and involvement. The last 3 ISA Presidents have been commercial arborists. "Us and Them" is a Pink Floyd song from the 70's. It does not describe the ISA today.
 
Having been a member of a self-governed, self-policed professional association in another career, I can say that it does and can work. Sure there are those that try to take advantage of the ethics to undermine competitors but through the ethics committee (elected on a regular basis) these frivolous or false complaints are investigated and weeded out or ruled in favor of the defendant. The self-policing keeps the costs of the association down. Is it perfect, no. It's a work in progress and ever evolving to achieve the end goal of the association, to elevate
the behaviour of those who practice the profession and to continually improve the public image and perception of the members.

In application of this one needs to let common sense, tact and diplomacy guide the approach. Chaps not being worn by a crew whose vehicles proclaim them to work for or are in fact ISA certified? Talk to the crew chief politely and in a friendly manner reminding him of the value of wearing the chaps and the pledge taken to uphold safe work practices. If this falls on deaf ears and you see the same company consistently in breach then notifying ISA just moves it up the ladder and saves you the time you might have spent trying to win them over.

At the end of the day, nobody, but nobody, has forced anyone to join the ISA or obtain certification. That was done voluntarily and with an understanding of, and now a pledge to, conduct oneself at a higher level of professionalism which is defined by the association. The definition which was created and agreed to by the members and or their elected representatives. Now how many CAs actually vote knowledgeably for these representatives?


Given how difficult OSHA finds it to police us despite strong language in the regulations, the ISA has an equally daunting task. The wording is devised to invoke the attitude that certain actions and behavior is unacceptable period.
 
you're such a racist! I might have had change, but I've had to wear these pants so long the pockets even have holes in them. I think it's OK though because I now keep some Chinese money in my wallet (Just In Case).
 
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