UK Arb moving to two ropes at all times (USA next?)

[SomethingWitty]

This is interesting because we just did an entire competition running ASAP backups at the Aerial Rescue Challenge.
Jeff Inman made some good points for using multiple ropes and multiple tie in points (and he is at the cutting edge of tree climbing skill and efficiency), but he also says that after two years of developing the skills and habits associated with new technique he doesn't choose to employ multiple ropes on every tree. The easiest way to make your climb safer as a safe climber is having a backup on your initial ascent before you have inspected your tie in thoroughly.
I will be messing with setting multiple ropes with a single throw in multiple places because that looks like it probably has some merit.



Telling the guys who follow the rules that they have more rules to follow won't really have any impact on most climbers. It only makes us have a harder time when we are already the safest group.

 

[moss]

Telling the guys who follow the rules that they have more rules to follow won't really have any impact on most climbers. It only makes us have a harder time when we are already the safest group.

Built-in problem when trying to improve safety practices generally, there is a tendency to over do it in the direction of the lowest common denominator.
-AJ

 

[Burrapeg]

This is interesting because we just did an entire competition running ASAP backups at the Aerial Rescue Challenge. . .

I was at this same event as a spectator. It was painfully obvious that almost every climber was having varying degrees of difficulty dealing with the second rope, messing about with the additional devices, keeping it from entangling their feet, etc. More than once, otherwise expert climbers completely failed to get the victim down within the prescribed time and it was always the second rope and added complexity that was slowing them down.

 

[Bart_]

Lots of good discussion. Just to clarify when I said two tips SOP, I meant my base tied rope passing over at east two tips each of which was factor of safety ok alone, or like on a conifer or single trunk tree there's a factor of lately alone tip not too far underneath the upper used tip should it break out. Estimated safety factor most guys use - 3 or 4 based on two guys bounce load a tip.

Can't understand why this vast improvement of odds is never emphasized.

Tried to get Mark to use his newfangled load cells to measure the added benefit of bollard effect at each tip or redirect your hang your rope on. Instead he reaffirmed vectors through 95% efficient pulley redirects and noted that if you bounce you can make the tip forces go up.

Guys use vectors all the time to get 500 lb logs bouncing down off high rig points. Why the mental block against using the same knowledge on your climb line? On a measly 200 lb guy with no where near the fall factor of a rigged log. Stretch the concept and it allows you to get out on tips you'd never otherwise go on, confident that you're going to have to break out alot of the top of the tree before you fall anywhere, and then your rope will catch on something else before you fall very far.

Jomoco, for fun try snagging your base tied SRT tip on a stick with a big tip perhaps a foot or two below about 50 feet up a tree. Go up gentle till you're 10 or 20 feet up, bounce and snap the twig and embrace the gentle, springy landing on your Haas and Pantin. You might get your hands to the forehead when the line goes slack, big deal. You might see the light and join the dark side. Not only does the spring of the extra rope help, the bollard skid across the tips damps the impact. If you've multi-tipped in a spreading tree the branches may also bend absorbing yet more of the fall. But choose your vectors sensibly so you don't side snap a tip branch. All in the spirit of good, I respect your input through the years.

 

[ghostice]

Would it be helpful at this point in the discussion, to offer up climbing with a wire core lanyard and a standby long lanyard (when spurring up trees too)? Also remember Richard Mumfords video about wrapping the trunk. All my own climbs tend to follow the trunk/ branch structure, rather than climbing in free air. Watch some of Lupillo’s videos using the treesqeeze? Also I’d ask us to consider other at height disciplines such as linemen on poles or spelunking, and to ‘read across’ to their techniques maybe? Lotsa ways to skin this cat.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

If I’m spiking up a spar if I don’t have my line alrighty tied in up above I will sometimes cinch it around the trunk as I go up. Mainly to protect against sliding down the trunk if my spurs kick out.

Usually I’ll try to set a tie in above though if the tree permits.

It also depends how far up the trunk I’m going without an actual tie in point above me.

You’re right I’ve seen that guy on YouTube and the method he uses for situations like this.

I mean I think the thing to remember about tree work is every situation is different. There is no one size fits all approach. You have to adapt to an ever changing work environment.