Tree-Age vs. Arbor Mectin

jed1124 · Jun 29, 2016

Nice to see Arbor Plugs are half the price they were last year too..............

JustinK · Jun 29, 2016

Used nothing but arbormectin this year. Uptake has been stupid fast no matter what. Longest wait yet yet has been just shy of 5min, and that was with 420mL.

Schulz9078 · Jul 7, 2016

Zacchaeus said:
I use Arborjet Quikjet AIR and Treeage. Very happy with it. Good uptake, as long as environmental conditions are right.
Arbor plugs are a little pricey, but in my opinion those are the beauty about what makes the Arborjet system so nice: seal off the area to keep pesticide in, decay out, and nice surface for woundwood...

Tree-age is a petroleum-base micro-encapsulated formulation with a high viscosity which slows uptake, decreases distribution and lowers efficacy. Arbormectin is a water-base micro-encapsulated formulation with a low viscosity which quickens uptake, increases distribution and increases efficacy.

Believe what you want (or what Arborjet feeds you) but Arborplugs are not necessary to keep pesticide in: this is proven by the macro-infusion or IQ injection systems from Rainbow (smaller injection sites, no plugs, and chemical does not leak). Arborjet actually has a plugless needle option available as the Stinger. Arborplugs also do not keep decay out. If you're setting your plugs correctly to heal and not push out, you'll be just inside of the cambium, which will expose a sliver of xylem. If decay wants to get it, it will.

Schulz9078 · Jul 7, 2016

jed1124 said:
Tried Tree-Age G4 the other day. Large Ash 410ml, 4 bottles. Hooked up the G4 first, on the sunny side, the other 3 were ArborMectin on the shady side. The 3 with ArborMectin ran out, the 1 with G4 about a half hour later.
That being said the G4 is MUCH better than the original as far as uptake. It's usable, where sometimes in some conditions the original just wasn't. I will definitely be using G4 in a pinch but I ordered a few cases of ArborMectin. I really wanted to be able to use the G4 on a regular bases because I can buy it by the bottle instead of a case at a time. Just can't be spending extra time waiting for uptake.

The G4 was hardly trialed in the field and people are still finding that Arbormectin is quicker and more effective. The lack of field results are pushing a lot of applicators away from it. My guess is that Arborjet needed to compete in the lawn care company/landscaper side of the industry and rushed it out the door.

Zacchaeus · Jul 8, 2016

Schulz9078 said:
Tree-age is a petroleum-base micro-encapsulated formulation with a high viscosity which slows uptake, decreases distribution and lowers efficacy. Arbormectin is a water-base micro-encapsulated formulation with a low viscosity which quickens uptake, increases distribution and increases efficacy.

Believe what you want (or what Arborjet feeds you) but Arborplugs are not necessary to keep pesticide in: this is proven by the macro-infusion or IQ injection systems from Rainbow (smaller injection sites, no plugs, and chemical does not leak). Arborjet actually has a plugless needle option available as the Stinger. Arborplugs also do not keep decay out. If you're setting your plugs correctly to heal and not push out, you'll be just inside of the cambium, which will expose a sliver of xylem. If decay wants to get it, it will.

First, I understand everything you said, it totally makes sense when I step back and think about it... OK
Next, where can you buy Arbormectin? I can't find it through Rainbow anymore. Do you know why?

Schulz9078 · Jul 8, 2016

Zacchaeus said:
First, I understand everything you said, it totally makes sense when I step back and think about it... OK
Next, where can you buy Arbormectin? I can't find it through Rainbow anymore. Do you know why?

You cannot purchase through Rainbow due to the Breach of Contract suit by Arborjet. You can purchase Arbormectin through the manufacturer, Rotam. Contact info here: http://www.arbormectin.com/contact/. They are sold in quarts, 4 per case. After doing the math, RUP Tree-age was ~$0.53 per mL and Arbormectin was ~$0.50 per mL. Even the G4 Tree-age comes in ~$5 more per quart than Arbormectin.

Zacchaeus · Jul 9, 2016

Schulz, thank you for your insight. I love to hear/read/exchange dialog with different viewpoints. It's what helps me learn. You've sold me on getting some Arbormectin, and i'm also going to be in contact with Arborjet about how to better their products for us, the arborists in the field. You also bring up great points about the plugs, decay, uptake, etc. and i'm looking into stinger tips for our equipment as I type this...
Stay safe out there brother!

Schulz9078 · Jul 9, 2016

Zacchaeus said:
Schulz, thank you for your insight. I love to hear/read/exchange dialog with different viewpoints. It's what helps me learn. You've sold me on getting some Arbormectin, and i'm also going to be in contact with Arborjet about how to better their products for us, the arborists in the field. You also bring up great points about the plugs, decay, uptake, etc. and i'm looking into stinger tips for our equipment as I type this...
Stay safe out there brother!

No problem. Chemicals have a lot of misconceptions about them when evaluating different formulations of the same active ingredient. I'll give you a few more examples of what I mean by this (ftr, I do not work for Rainbow but they are my distributor. I go where the science leads me and Rainbow can back up every case of their's with science and data).

1) Imidacloprid 2F - Xytect, Bandit, Merit - All contain 21.4% Imidacloprid but under efficacy studies, Xytect was shown to move into the trees faster and at higher rates.

2) Dinotefuran - Transtect, Safari, Zylam - All contain Dinotefuran but under study, Transtect translocates faster and provides higher control on hard to control pests (hard scales, soft scales, flatheaded borers).

Most applicators won't worry about what else is in the bottle except that the active ingredient is present. I prefer to understand the chemistry behind the formulation and what makes one better than the other.

As for getting Arborjet to change their minds on anything, good luck. They strictly force injections down our throats when a spray would work better. Take Fire Blight for example: Arborjet's protocol is to inject OTC once just before flowering and once at full leaf. This gives you 2 injections in 1 month's time. You will certainly girdle most trees (most are smaller ornamentals anyways) within a few growing seasons. Why risk girdling when you could have just use a copper mixture spray application at flowering and during dormancy? They want what's best for Arborjet and that's to push injection devices and products.

TimBr · Jul 9, 2016

@Schulz9078; Welcome to the TreeBuzz forum! My name is Tim. Great posts so far; I look forward to reading more from you.

There's a lot of nice folks on this forum. I think you'll like it here. Take care.

Alan123 · Jul 21, 2016

since @Schulz9078 has made the case for Rainbow/Rotam. I thought I'd voice my $0.02 on why I choose to use the original Treeage formulation from Arborjet.

Results: I've never lost a tree to EAB while using Treeage (even saved a few i thought were goners) If it aint broke, dont fix it. There's alot of talk on here about speed, speed, speed, faster, faster, faster. Personally I like data, data, data, research, research, research. Nothing has proven itself like the original Treeage.

Support: the folks at Arborjet are great, if I ever have a question related to products or equipment I can get an answer very quickly. Their area rep Jeff has helped me out on several occasions. Is Rotam gonna teach you how to inject a tree?

Industry: I'm proud of my profession and take pride in my work. It pisses me off to see unqualified/unlicensed/uneducated people that dont give a damn about arboriculture working on trees. I've noticed Arborjet donating money to TCIA, ISA, Treefund, scholarships, etc... This drives our industry forward and I like that. What does Rotam do for us Arborists? Provide a cheaper product? I dont use echo equipment just b/c it's cheaper, why would I buy their generic emmamectin? as Schulz said the price is really close anyways.

Arborjet hit a grand slam when they introduced Treeage to arboriculture. 2+ year control of the worst bug ever. The way I see it, Rainbow is trying to play catch up and losing badly. I'm anxious to see the next big thing from Arborjet.

TimBr · Jul 21, 2016

Wow, @Alan123, great first post! Welcome to the TreeBuzz forum! I look forward to reading more from you.

Tim

JD3000 · Sep 17, 2016

Schulz9078 said:
No problem. Chemicals have a lot of misconceptions about them when evaluating different formulations of the same active ingredient. I'll give you a few more examples of what I mean by this (ftr, I do not work for Rainbow but they are my distributor. I go where the science leads me and Rainbow can back up every case of their's with science and data).

1) Imidacloprid 2F - Xytect, Bandit, Merit - All contain 21.4% Imidacloprid but under efficacy studies, Xytect was shown to move into the trees faster and at higher rates.

2) Dinotefuran - Transtect, Safari, Zylam - All contain Dinotefuran but under study, Transtect translocates faster and provides higher control on hard to control pests (hard scales, soft scales, flatheaded borers).

Most applicators won't worry about what else is in the bottle except that the active ingredient is present. I prefer to understand the chemistry behind the formulation and what makes one better than the other.

As for getting Arborjet to change their minds on anything, good luck. They strictly force injections down our throats when a spray would work better. Take Fire Blight for example: Arborjet's protocol is to inject OTC once just before flowering and once at full leaf. This gives you 2 injections in 1 month's time. You will certainly girdle most trees (most are smaller ornamentals anyways) within a few growing seasons. Why risk girdling when you could have just use a copper mixture spray application at flowering and during dormancy? They want what's best for Arborjet and that's to push injection devices and products.

Dinotefuron...what's the residual? Talked to a few experts and did some reading and it seems to be about 60 days or so. Keep that in mind when timing an application. Anybody heard anything similiar or contradictory?