To save or remove? (with pics)

macrocarpa

macrocarpa

Branched out member
Location
Midwest
This pin oak has some tip decline too. That massive wound will just decay further obviously. The 2 remaining leads would need cabled and maybe braced along with pruning. Tree is also loaded with scale.

It provides a ton of shade and the front yard would be bare without it.

Customer wants my opinion of save or remove? She is not leaning one way or the other, she just wants a professional opinion.

I am leaning toward removal because it is not a long term tree. She could plant/landscape the front yard after it is removed with "long term" trees, rather than investing in saving this one only to possibly have to remove it 5-10 years down the road. If the remaining leader fall, one side is powerlines, the other is the house.

What do you guys think?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/53981946@N04/6260243215/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/53981946@N04/6260238401/in/photostream
 
Install temp. support/cable
Reduce over-reaching ends
Treat for scale
Steel cable/s low in the canopy
Dynamic cabling in the higher canopy
Through bolt/brace the trunks

Get them to sign a waiver acknowledging the risk that they're assuming.

enjoy the tree
 
Ditto what Tom said, plus you could hit it with a plant growth regulator, dosed a little light, to try to reduce some of the chlorosis in the leaves. Of course, do the Gold Standard mulched area and organic material to the critical root zone, if not already done.
Plant replacement tree(s) now, keeping in mind that the oak will come down between them in the future.
Best, R
 
Do a risk assessment, let the tree tell its own story in objective terms. Outline the options, and give your client a palette of fully explained management decisions. It's her tree, and she's the one who has to live with the decision.

Our job isn't to make recommendations, but to educate and inform, so that the client can reach their own informed decision.
 
That's a big tree, hard to replace especially in the short term (next 50 years). What are the targets if one of the leads fails?

I was just re-watching Kane's presentation on strength loss from bio-mechanics. Co-dominant stems on average required less than 1/2 the pulling force to failure as 'normal' trees.

That being said, I would still push towards preservation given the size and value; bracing and cabling and crown reduction, thinning.

jp
grin.gif
 
"Our job isn't to make recommendations, but to educate and inform, so that the client can reach their own informed decision. "

But you could get a trusted Consulting arborist to recommend what to do...

That's what I do, usually. Then the burden is off of you, and your bias doesn't enter into the equation. The bias comes in when you think about how difficult it would be to remove all those dead tips rather than remove the big limbs.
 
Just from my experience working with large pin & willow oaks of that size and structure, I would say those large inclusions WILL be serious problems in the future. Growing enough compensation wood for that size of a defect is not very likely for that age and species and with the climate we've had in the mountains being very hard on the red oak type trees. Sure, two cables would tie together the canopy, but they're looking at removal soonish down the road, especially since it had that large failure.
 
I forgot to mention, the split side is the same size as the 2 remaining (looks smaller from the pics).

Also, it fell on a completely calm day.
 
If the two stems aren't oppositely arranged, the cabling/bracing option could be a bad idea. Do you have pics that show the orientation of the leads?

I also agree with this quote:

"The bias comes in when you think about how difficult it would be to remove all those dead tips rather than remove the big limbs."

I laughed when I first read it, it is so true.

-Tom
 
sounds like sudden limb drop if it has been as dry there as it has been here. mitigation: let the tree decide wether it is going to live or die. those dead tips look like drought damage. the chlorosis is a symptom of the drought and scale damage. deep root watering, treat scale, clean cut the wound, bark trace, paint wound, clean out and scrape inside the inclusions to try and form a pressure grafts, then reduce the crown by a third, thin, then cable and brace. deep root watering applied every month for the next year. or just cut the mother down and plant some new trees. i personally would let the customer make the call
 
Also, try to find out if the tree has bacterial leaf scorch. It is a big problem in my area. Take a sample and see if your Extension Agency can culture it out. No cure for it but it could be the cause for the tip dieback in addition to the draught.
 
On a side note, is that Tulip really 191ft? that's incredible. Didn't know they got that tall.

Re Pin Oak, I would remove the tree. Its already dropped a massive stem, why wait for another? As you say there are valuable targets under the remaining stems.

The wound is a massive clue as to where this tree is heading in the future. We must learn from history, read the tree and find the appropriate solution - in this case...removal.

Cabling that tree wont work.
 
darn it's copyrighted so can't Paint...leads look in line enough for cable to work. could outlive us all.

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But you could get a trusted Consulting arborist to recommend what to do...That's what I do, usually. Then the burden is off of you,...

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not sure why you would want to hand off this decision when it belongs to the owner. she should be happy just receiving options. nothing against consultants of course...
cool.gif
 
I'd say that the tree definitely has BLS, which could be a slow killer, taking another 5-15 years. The asymetric pattern of early leaf discloration, and tip die back, and the browning leaf margins, are clear symptoms of BLS..

SO I wouldn't go spending a ton of $$$ on the tree.. One cable set nice and high, $300, and the tree can live for another 3-5 years, or more with watering and mulch...

Or take it down and start over now.. leave it up to the customer..
 
Has the defect been inspected up close? I'm guessing there was already a substantial amount of decay present for the stem to fail the way it did. I also suspect there is significant decay between the remaining stems. I would start there.....
 
I have some photos somewhere of an almost identical situation from June this year. During a storm two of the three stems failed leaving one left and severely compromised. I have some shots of the defect after it was picked out of the tree..... Somewhere....
 
I vote save. Good root flare and zone is a must.
Plus mulch
Plus the inclusion surgery is worth a try as mentioned.
Cable as necessary. Usually install cables once I load the tree and observe the trees reaction. At that point you may have to call it a removal.Dunno.

Not many Pin Oaks that size in Ontario best to listen to others experiences re Pins.


Best of lUck!
smile.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
Not many Pin Oaks that size in Ontario best to listen to others experiences re Pins.

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This pin oak is 50in dbh. There is one in town that is 76dbh, it is the biggest tree in town that I know of.

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On a side note, is that Tulip really 191ft? that's incredible. Didn't know they got that tall.

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Probably over 192ft or more by now.

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Just from my experience working with large pin & willow oaks of that size and structure, I would say those large inclusions WILL be serious problems in the future. Growing enough compensation wood for that size of a defect is not very likely for that age and species and with the climate we've had in the mountains being very hard on the red oak type trees. Sure, two cables would tie together the canopy, but they're looking at removal soonish down the road, especially since it had that large failure

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As much as I like preserving large trees, I think you nailed it here! But I'll give the tree owner the info she needs to make her own decision.
 
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