To save or remove? (with pics)

Someday i will hear a basis for these "soonish" prognoses on needed removal work, or a mention of reduction as an alternative.

Until then, they are filed in the bs bin; no offense.

"Has the defect been inspected up close? I'm guessing there was already a substantial amount of decay present for the stem to fail the way it did. I also suspect there is significant decay between the remaining stems. I would start there..... "

Will's right--get the facts up close, a 1-2 hour assessment, on the clock.
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This failure is a good ad for TRA and support services!

murph, BLS is not a death sentence; treatable. http://www.treecarescience.com/tree-diseases/vascular-wilt/bacterial-leaf-scorch
 
I have to throw in my 2 cents on the BLS front.
You should definitely have leaf samples tested to determine if you are dealing with this disease, it will greatly impact the long term management plan for this tree. In my experience with BLS here, it is not practical to treat. BLS is not something you can cure, you can only slow it down a bit. Just because you can buy a product to treat a disease does not mean that it works 100%.


http://www.ca.uky.edu/agcollege/plantpathology/ext_files/PPFShtml/PPFS-OR-W-12.pdf

Obviously the tree in question here has a lot going on with it given that it has a history of failure, tip die back and a scale infestation. Seems like a spiral of decline that is questionable to reverse.

Are there any other pathogens at work on this poor tree? Any Ganoderma, Inonotus, Hypoxolon, Phytophthora?

I'd say a thorough Tree Risk Assessment is in order with a report detailing the findings of the assessment along with the options available to the client.

It's a sad reality, but nothing can live forever (that we know of). Keep us posted on what is decided.
 
Just to be a devil's advocate, why not consider:


1: A thorough ground and aerial inspection and risk evaluation of the tree. If assessment shows that the tree will support it, and the owner is willing..then..

2. Reduction pruning of the defective tree, in an effort to reduce risk and nurse it along for a few years, while still retaining its benefits.

3: Placing a replacement tree relatively close to that one, directly off the side where the failed limb broke, assuming there's room. The older, defective tree would partially suppress the new one, perhaps aiding it in growing a central leader.

As the new tree grows, and the defective one continues to decline, you could continue to reduce the defective one, until such time as the new one has become well established, and is ready to exploit the above ground space. At that point, do the removal and let the successor have full reign.

Certainly more labor intensive, lots more billable hours for you, but with luck, your client will not be without a canopy on that location.
 
Assuming it has BLS, which is pretty clear with only visual exam, what kind of budget would it take to do the things you all are suggesting, as well as the bacastat treatment?..

Guy,
do tell if you have experience with bacastat, I have some concerns that rainbow is hyping their products when I see the photos.. and it definitely has my attention.. There is a ton of BLS here. Last I heard those that are selling bacastat do so with great care so as not to make promises that can't be kept.
 
Another Oxytetracycline product:

http://www.mauget.com/index.cfm?PageID=18&ID=4&productid=13

I'm using this for the 1st time next spring or early summer? would have to look at my notes but thats the best time frame to attempt treatment. But annual trunk injections probably not a good idea. I'm just experimenting and this particular tree owner knows its not a cure.

From what I understand it is just to suppress the bacteria, along with cultural practices.

But as for the pin oak in the original post, I dont think it has bls, I have seen a lot of bls on other pin oaks this year and it looked obvious a couple months ago. One side of the canopy effected 1st, brown to green margins, etc. This pin oak shows uniform tip decline which makes me think typical urban stresses + scale + drought + lifespan in that site.
 
The pics you posted do not show the branch tips.. however there is a clear asymetrical pattern of early discoloration. And some leaves that look like the margins are fried.. looks like BLS, but not for sure. If BLS is common in your area, it makes sense to test for BLS before making a plan here...
 
Ya, that pic does look like possible bls, but it is deceiving. The oaks are turning now and this one is turning uniform even though that pics makes it look like the left side is browning and the right still green. I'll look for margins next time im out soon. Its certainly a possiblity, but while on the site it didn't look like bls.
 
I'd say that it comes down to advising the client that, given the value of the tree, you need to do a more thorough inspection and evaluation of the tree in order to make any sort of recommendation. Give her an estimate of the costs involved in doing that.

I assisted in an evaluation of a tree to determine the options available to the client. It cost them $3000 to do, then the cost of the recommendation on top of it. Some people will pay to do the right thing. You need to find out if she is that kind of person.
 
$3000 for an evaluation? Did you drive a yellow Rolls-Royce to the job?
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That kind of open wound requires no tomograph, or even a drill. Climb, probe, measure, toss a rope to the end and watch the crack as the ground crew pulls, 1-page report, <$300, more like.

no i have not used that product; little bls here, and drenching with paclo would be my first thought re chem on that. the drill is the last tool out of the bag.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Someday i will hear a basis for these "soonish" prognoses on needed removal work, or a mention of reduction as an alternative.

Until then, they are filed in the bs bin; no offense.

[/ QUOTE ]

A couple of days ago I caught myself just about to use the highly accurate "soonish" term, but stopped and switched to its more ambiguous cousin: "it's really more of a question of 'when' than 'if' this tree will fail". My guess is that this belongs in the bs bin also, although you'll get no apologies from me. It comes from wanting to break the bad news gently, especially after hearing the tree's history and given its age (really old
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)and size (huge
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48" to 60" DBH). To make matters worse the large Elms on this antebellum home site were in bad shape also.

All kidding aside, it's not as bad as getting the news about your favorite dog, but it's close.
 

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I would send a leaf sample to the local extension service for a nutrient analysis and bacterial culture.

Take a soil sample.

Climb the tree and evaluate the integrity of the structure.

do soil level inspection.

Go over the facts and present them to the HO.

Explain that risk is something that the HO needs to understand and determine the amount they want to assume,, leave your phone open for questions and get involved..

You may find that you learn something in the process and gain a life long customer(with referrals)


my opinion Steve
 
[ QUOTE ]
...it's not as bad as getting the news about your favorite dog, but it's close.

[/ QUOTE ]ok, but the big dif is, the tree can be made smaller and safer. Plants are indeterminate, iow.
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I was just the grunt labor helping set up the pull line for the data collection. The money went to the guys who crunched the numbers. I did do the recommended crown reduction though!

Nah, left the RR at home and rode my mountain bike to the job.
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