To Prune or not to Prune

tothetrees

tothetrees

Location
Charlotte
First I would like to thank all of you guys for answering my questions. I'm learning every time I open the Buzz!
So, I have a question involving pruning. I searched the forums but couldn't really hammer down a final decision. Seems to be conflicting opinions and I'm sorry if this has been discussed and I'm beating a dead horse.
I have two small red oaks my friend wants to have pruned/shaped. There will be a pretty significant amount of limbs to cut...so the question is should I wait until the leaves fall or go ahead and Edward scissor-hands it? I have read to prune only when dormant and then read it doesn't matter. Any thoughts?
Thanks in advance for your help!uploadfromtaptalk1445786095820.webpuploadfromtaptalk1445786112903.webp
 
Age and general conditions of the trees and soil will help with some answers. As a general rule from what I have read on here and in books, you should not make all those cuts in one pruning. Depending on the specs you give from above and the trees/homeowners final form factors iwould expect that to be at least 2 possibly 3 smaller pruning/shaping events. Just my opinion, not an actual arborist.
 
On trees that size/age the most beneficial thing you can do is structural pruning. Read Ed Gilmans book on it. Find the root flare, I'm not sure what is going on with those raised beds. Avoid taking 20-25% of the green total, or off any one limb unless the goal is to subordinate that part of the tree. Less is more.
As far as timing goes I am not familiar with your area. I will prune pretty much any time of year, but it's specie dependant. The example being I will not prune shore pine in the summer, because of bark beetles are in flight then. Same with Prunus.
 
X2 on all of Evo's advice. Especially the question about those raised beds - I see no root flare in that second photo. Avoid volcano mulching (domed pile of mulch up against the tree trunk) AT ALL COSTS! I'm vary wary of people who say they want to "shape" an oak. Often that means they want to mow it into a round ball with hedge pruners. As Evo said, at this point structural pruning with an eye to the future is the most important. As for timing, in Michigan we could only prune oaks during the winter due to oak wilt, but I don't believe that is an issue in Charlotte. X3 on Gilman's.
 
Young tree training is 1st
Anything else you do can be done once those goals have been met and tree has recovered.

Check root flare before pruning as others have said. Here is good start for you and friends.Remember be bold and fear not what seems to be a drastic cut, it will grow much better and faster when trained.

 
Trees that young bounce back pretty well from significant pruning doses. Bearing in mind that you want the first permanent scaffold branches somewhere around 15' above grade, eventually most of what is showing in the photos will go away, so bring the lower branches in closer to the trunk to suppress them beneath the shade of the central lead (whatever you decide to choose out of that thicket to be the leader) They will then slow their growth, as the remaining leader correspondingly increases its growth rate. When I see trees like that, I think of a sled dog team without an alpha dog to lead it. You've got chaos with just about every branch trying to become the leader. Start looking in the upper canopy for a good candidate for your first permanent branch. Look for one growing at 90 degrees to the top of the trunk, rather than the multitudes of 45's apparent in the photo. For trees that young, with so much left on them that should have been pruned at planting, I'd probably go over 25%, providing the tree owner was willing to get on board in the interest of the long term structural development of the trees.

If there's not a rush, you might want to wait until after leaf drop just to get a clearer idea of the structure before you start developing a pruning plan.

Definitely inspect the root flare to make sure that the brickwork hasn't become a de-facto container, causing circling and girdling roots, and attend to what you find.
 
Generally good advice above, but... this is not a street tree, so why is 15' of clear trunk a goal???? They do not want to harvest the log, I'm guessing...
Is that a shumard or a rubra or what? Nice to know; post closeup of leaf?

What is the objective? Shaping what how why? If it's good structure and health, yes select your dominant leader(s) and subordinate others.

Trees CODIT better when pruned in the growing season. Trees rot the most when pruned in winter. One dose now and another in March-April might be ideal.
 
Wow! Thank you all for the reply's and advice. I have a ton to learn, especially about pruning. To answer the question on shaping, The owner just wants the trees to be more rounded and uniform. This may not be advisable, I don't know, but that's what they want. They also want to bring the canopy up so the trees do not interfere with the people walking on the side walk, which means taking off a few bottom limbs.

As far as the raised beds, thanks for the tip. I will definitely mention that to them.

So the take away is; its ok to prune lightly within the next month or so right after leaf drop to start the training and possibly again in 6-8 months?

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!
 
Most importantly IMHO is for you to make proper pruning cuts. Do you know anything about 3 cut pruning, or the branch collar/branch bark ridge? These are not difficult concepts to understand, but they are critical to you making proper cuts on the tree. Are you aware of these concepts, or shall we cover those?
I'm sorry if it's sounds as though I'm belittling you - that is not my intent. I'm just not sure of your level of pruning knowledge.
 
Jeff, Thanks for the cutting recommendation. I have heard of that type of cutting before and after a quick Google search I found great pics and explanations. However, what I found was relative for removing entire limbs which I would need to do but is there any specific procedure when cutting say the middle of the limb?

Merle, that would be awesome! I will keep on the lookout for that! Thanks
 
red oak train.webp Yes that tree, like most trees, needs a lot more reduction cuts than removal cuts.
I don't see a reason to remove the lower 10' of crown contributions and benefits, or to lollipop the tree by nipping off random ends. Once you go down that road it will be high maintenance to lollipop it over time.

Your friend should entrust these assets to a professional in Charlotte, like Brock Holtzclaw of CoEvolution Design, wbtrees@gmail.com. You could learn while helping him out.
Brock's fine work is featured in the attached pruning article[/ATTACH] , first pic.
 

Attachments

Guy, you'll note I didn't call for removal of lower crown components..not now anyway. What I did suggest was supressing them so that they'll develop smaller aspect ratio, relative to the trunk. Those lower branches frequently wind up being the site of large tear outs as the tree matures, when their diameters are allowed to become close in size to that of the main trunk. The majority of large limb failures I encounter on mature trees, are on branches which should have been subordinated, or even removed at planting.

I also don't really see a problem planning for a first permanent scaffold branch at a height which will keep it clear of the roof of the house, and clear of the roofs of Fed Ex trucks on the street. I certainly wasn't suggesting elevating that tree to that height in one fell swoop.
 
"I also don't really see a problem planning for a first permanent scaffold branch at a height which will keep it clear of the roof of the house, and clear of the roofs of Fed Ex trucks on the street."
Since branches can/should be trained to upright laterals, that means they can originate at a height that still allows a lower crown for screen etc. That directional pruning also subordinates.

" I certainly wasn't suggesting elevating that tree to that height in one fell swoop."
Well, you were suggesting "you want the first permanent scaffold branches somewhere around 15' above grade," which seems way excessive for this or almost any location.
I've (mis?)heard Dr. G. advise selecting the first scaffold at up to 20' in most cases, but even with street trees this seems like an excessive loss of crown benefits. On a highway median, or a site where maximum turf coverage is desired like a gold course, Maybe...

I just hope tothetrees decided to work with Brock to learn how.
 
All and especially Guymayor, thank you for all of the great knowledge! I'm sorry I haven't responded, I'm just getting over a weeks worth of flu like symptoms. I have been reading up on pruning and will definitely reach out to Brock once I figure out the budget from my friend. I mainly do removals and would greatly benefit from his expert advice when it comes to pruning.
I have to say, pruning seems like a completely different animal compared to removals.I have sooo much to learn :)
 
Pruning is like a remodeling project (objectives and desired quality of the result varies by home owner, as well as the product dependent on the pruner). Removals are simply demolition projects.
 
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