The Past 4 Years

JeffGu

Well-Known Member

treegongfu

Well-Known Member
Higherground, I think it all stems from the neomarxist postmodernism takeover of the universities. They believe in a race, gender, and sexuall proclivity struggle where all relations are power relations and truth is relative. It is immoral and has as its goals the destruction of Europeans civilization, Christianity, men, white people, and the family. In otherwords, all that has made the greatest civilization ever known.
 

JaredDTS

Member
Location
Kill Devil Hills
I dont think posting new articles is helpful. Ifs easy to cherry pick biased reports that don't focus on the bigger picture.

It's not something that can be accomplished in a few years. Of course some corporations are going to take advantage in the short term. Do those companies manufacture anything? Do they need to add jobs? Are they taking advantage of a stimulus bill? Did we all need stimulus checks? We're you happy to get then anyways?

Increasing our competitive ability with China is the only way to add a meaningful amount of jobs and get the country going in the right direction. More goods sold outside the country and money coming in versus shipping it oversees to China. It takes a concerted effort over a long period. It took decades for it to get to the point it has and won't turn around over night. Decreased corporate taxes and increased tariffs can make it profitable or at least close enough to off shoring to bring jobs back.
 

JaredDTS

Member
Location
Kill Devil Hills
I guess basic economics makes me loony.

I will step out and say there is a way out of the hole we have dug for ourselves which a feeble attempt was made for the past 4 years.

I cant wait for four plus years of going back to what isn't working and hoping it will somehow get better for anyone. Printing money and sending it overseas isn't a good plan. There is a word for continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Who is benefiting from all of this?
 

owScott

Well-Known Member
Location
Lafayette
“This morning, I realized that everything is about to change. No matter how I vote, no matter what I say, lives are never going to be the same.
I have been confused by the hostility of family and friends. I look at people I have known all my life so hate-filled that they agree with opinions they would never express as their own. I think that I may well have entered the Twilight Zone.
You can't justify this insanity. We have become a nation that has lost its collective mind.
We see other countries going Socialist and collapsing, but it seems like a great plan to us.
Somehow it’s un-American for the census to count how many Americans are in America.
People who say there is no such thing as gender are demanding a female President.
Universities that advocate equality, discriminate against Asian-Americans in favor of African-Americans.
Some people are held responsible for things that happened before they were born, and other people are not held responsible for what they are doing right now.
Criminals are caught-and-released to hurt more people, but stopping them is bad because it's a violation of THEIR rights.
People who have never owned slaves should pay slavery reparations to people who have never been slaves.
After legislating gender, if a dude pretends to be a woman, you are required to pretend with him.
It was cool for Joe Biden to "blackmail" the President of Ukraine, but it’s an impeachable offense if Donald Trump inquiries about it.
People who have never been to college should pay the debts of college students who took out huge loans for their degrees.
Immigrants with tuberculosis and polio are welcome, but you’d better be able to prove your dog is vaccinated.
Irish doctors and German engineers who want to immigrate to the US must go through a rigorous vetting process, but any illiterate gang-bangers who jump the southern fence are welcomed.
$5 billion for border security is too expensive, but $1.5 trillion for “free” health care is not.
If you cheat to get into college you go to prison, but if you cheat to get into the country you go to college for free.
And, pointing out all this hypocrisy somehow makes us "racists"!
Nothing makes sense anymore, no values, no morals, no civility and people are dying of a Chinese virus, but it is racist to refer to it as Chinese even though it began in China.
We are clearly living in an upside-down world where right is wrong and wrong is right, where moral is immoral and immoral is moral, where good is evil and evil is good, where killing murderers is wrong, but killing innocent babies is right.
Wake up America. The great unsinkable ship Titanic America has hit an iceberg, is taking on water and sinking fast.”

I don’t know the author but this pretty much sums everything up for me.
The virus has a name its covid 19. When you inject race, in this case Chinese, into something were it is not relevant thats racism. Saying the virus came from China is not racist just a fact. There is a big difference. The people who are displaying racism dont get to determine if it is racist. Pointing out hypcrisy doesnt make you racist, associating with people waving KKK flags, wearing nazi crap on your shirt and flying the confederate flag sure does. I wonder if the criminals Trump just pardoned are part of the "caught and release" program you speak of. While we are on the topic of hypocrisy how about the government shouldnt regulate guns or things that harm the enviroment but should strictly regulate who gets married or who can have an abortion, which doesnt effect anybodies life but the people involved. The gun and enviroment issue effects everyone. How about no abortions for women who got pregnant through lets say unsaviory means forced to have the child but then oh yeah of course government assistance is a no no. How about conservatives who cashed stimulas checks, thats a form of socialism. This is the ranting of a fearful intitled person who thinks this country belongs to them and people who think like them.
 

owScott

Well-Known Member
Location
Lafayette
I guess basic economics makes me loony.

I will step out and say there is a way out of the hole we have dug for ourselves which a feeble attempt was made for the past 4 years.

I cant wait for four plus years of going back to what isn't working and hoping it will somehow get better for anyone. Printing money and sending it overseas isn't a good plan. There is a word for continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Who is benefiting from all of this?
May I recommend a simple economics exercise. Look back at the economic situation at the end of 2008 then look at the end 2016 and finally today. Here is a starter fact 2008 unemployment 10% roughfully, 2016 5% ,2019 3.5% pre pandemic and now at one point 14% not sure today.
 

owScott

Well-Known Member
Location
Lafayette
@Tom Dunlap

I’m just so utterly discouraged by the fact that no matter what I say I am ridiculed and called unintelligent for having a conservative viewpoint. I have such a high respect for all of you on here as you all have taught me so much about arboriculture. I am so grateful for the wisdom that you all so freely share. But why can’t a conservative have a voice? The entire mainstream media and now all mainstream social media is silencing any voice that doesn’t fit their agenda. They say they are “fact checking” and “removing hate speech” when in all actuality they’re just silencing one side, conservatives. And now, Tom Dunlop you are even silencing conservatives on this platform.

I don’t believe there’s any difference between the office of President and the person who sits in it. They are one and the same. You can’t talk about Donald Trump without talking about the President of the United States of America. I’m just so hurt by how you all have disrespected this office. I believe Donald Trump is one of the greatest conservative presidents that our country has ever had. You all think he’s horrible because you only listen to mainstream media which, again, is trying to silence conservatism. No man is perfect, and Trump has his flaws, but politically he has accomplished more for conservatives than both Bush’s combined.

I can guarantee you that I will respect President Biden even though I don’t agree with most of his policies and values. I will simply resign from political threads on here.

I want to say again, thank you all for your willingness to share your wisdom in arboriculture. This forum has been a truly invaluable resource for me as I continue to learn and grow as an arborist. Thank you all.
They are fact checking because Trump lies so damn much, they removed him from social media because he is inciting violence. Is banging porn stars when your wife is pregnant and saying you grab women by the p#####, which is sexual assault, part of your conservative viewpoint. Right out of the Trump play book, be the victim. Accomplishing more than both Bush's is a very low bar. You arent being ridiculed or being called unitelligent, you are being challenged on the same misinformation we have been enduring for 4 years. There is a reason trump lost the election by a true landslide plus alot, this country is feed up with this craziness. The office of the president isnt beening disrespected here, Trumps done a good job of that, its beening defended by calling out lies and misinformation. If you are a true conservative understand Trump is destroying the values you believe in. Trump is lying to you, please see that.
You're right I'm sure Trump does lie. Perhaps he really meant or believed those things though? That would fit with his egotistical narcissism.

Do a little more research on all those countries. Having socialist tendencies doesn't make you socialist/communist.

To be clear I dont believe the US should have any socialist tendencies that come at the expense of the general public. An effective government should not need to victimize its people who work hard to support its health as a whole. I don't want to live in those countries and I don't believe this class of politicians has the right to change how our country has existed since its birth. Get your tinfoil hats on and start reading Orwell because it's all down hill once they do.
Who is advocating for socialism? Biden?
 

owScott

Well-Known Member
Location
Lafayette
I call companies bringing manufacturing back from China to the US, because increased tariffs and reduced corporate taxes made it beneficial to do so, helping them. Granted it was not nearly enough but it happened.

I dont call increasing the corporate tax rate to drive manufacturing out of this country and taking away peoples way to support themselves benefiting them. Actually the opposite, it makes them reliant upon social services. Are they going to vote for someone who wants to take those services away from them? No, they will vote for those who enact legislation to benefit those who can't support themselves. I dont blame those people because it's not their fault the system is broken.

The more people have to worry about struggling to survive the less they care about other things. Its all about control and getting votes. The next step is to take away your second amendment right so there is no reason for the ruling class to fear the general population.
So you are saying the ruling class should fear the general population because they have guns, did I read that right? Thats exactly the message the mob that raided the capital was relaying. " If we lose an election and dont get what we want we will resort to violence". Most everything else you have posted has been reasonable, but that is telling.
 

Benjo75

Well-Known Member
Location
Malvern
As long as Biden continues to display decreasing mental capacity it won't be long. We've already had almost a year of "not getting what we want and resorting to violence ".
 

Tom Dunlap

Here from the beginning
Administrator
Where am I squashing a discussion? I expect YOU to site chapter and verse since you brought it up.

I'm in a really awkward spot here. As co-owner there are agreements that Mark and I came up with 20..read that again TWENTY years ago...about our vision for TreeBuzz.com. We agree that Off Topic is much less hands on. As long as the discussion stays reasonably civil anything goes. I do a bit of content moderating. No one would know that unless what is posted doesn't pass what someone called the 'Tom's Mom' test. then I delete without discussion. Unless its spam that happens rarely. If someones style is too coarse or harsh they will get a DM message. I explain that what I expect is that how they express themselves changes NOT...NEVER...what they say. This is offline. They are given 2-3 days. Then, I edit and so occasionally delete or edit myself. That is soooooooo rare.

My participation in the off topic, especially the social and political posts isn't coming from the co owner position. Its coming from my gut. You're hearing what my concerns and beliefs are.

In this thread I've asked you more than once to use your own words to express your points...not cut n paste. I could have gone off the rails about Agnew...but I expected you to do your own homework. Did you?

Oh...I rarely ask rhetorical questions without saying they are rhetorical. If I ask a question...its a question.

Even though I've spent most of my life out here in fly-over land I do pay attention to news and doings around the country. So many years ago I started hearing stuff about rump...and NEVER anything good. This is decades before any of his political ambitions. He used to pretend to be a Democrat remember? In my assessment he has always been the most awful person possible. Then he becomes political. I'm disgusted.

Did you read Lord of the RIngs? the trilogy...I mean read not watch the movies. The second to last chapter is called 'The Scouring of the Shire' The first, of three, times I read LOTR was in 11th grade circa 1971. That chapter is where we are now. Sauron is gone but the awful damage and stink is still with us. The Hobbits had to "Scour the Shire' and get rid of the wretch Saruman. Go re read it. A good allegory of where we are now.

rump, in my, and others, evaluation, is not a conservative. His politics lean more right but he's always been a third party. Now what he constructed and destructed will be with us for some time. I hope that our country survives the 'scouring' that is needed.

There are few people here who were working as arbos during Dr Shigo's era. My life, personally and professionally, have been blessed by his work. When he first started making noise about collar cuts, CODIT and Modern Arborculture...yes, he dropped the 'i' too. There was such controversy about flush cuts and collar cuts. It took time but the flush cutters and their position went away. He was right. THe flush cutter crowd had a following too. But science showed that they were wrong. Shigo quoted Socrates many times: Define your terms and we'll have a short discussion. Have clear language and know what you're saying. To this day I talk about getting a cut and always talk about how soon it might seal not heal. Dang back-mixing biology and botany. Derek, if you're still reading, I asked you what a 'patriot' is to you. well?

Around 1985 I picked up the first edition of On Rope. After reading it I realized that there was a LOT that arbos could use. I started converting to SRT at the time. First, for ascent. Makes perfect sense. Then I'd use it for going up, doing work at one place, broken limb or cabling especially, then descend using an I'd or similar. After a season I realized that a friction tool that could go up and down would be the ticket. SRT was THE solution. I started sharing what I found and how I was adapting big wall/caving techniques to treework. Mostly my ideas were well received.I won't go into the details now. By the most amazing bit of serendipity I met Morgan Thompson at Expo in Long Beach where he was showing off the Unicender. Game changer! SRT was solved. Morgan gave me one and I was in climber heaven! I realized another Truth...and used it often. SRT is the Future of Tree Climbing. My chatter on forums, chapter workshops, article in Arborist News gave SRT some time on the stage. Most people could see value but there sure were some that thought I was a heretic. I guess so. so now...where are we? SRT is old-speak, but I still get tongue tied over it. Sometimes new-speak comes out though. I know that I didn't discover SRT. Arbos didn't but we did make it our own.

So...what do these two examples have to do with politics? Change and truths. Take time to look back at what change you want. How will change take place? How is it accepted?

I got one of my birthday wishes a few days ago. In the morning Georgia went Blue. I was content. Later on my birthday I got a text from my brother about the Capitol being over run. That was NOT a birthday wish. This will be the worst birthday of 67.

If a person says something I expect that they will elaborate and explain their point if someone else asks. Otherwise it comes off as an opinion. Not answering when asked makes it, as my dear friend Bob Wulkowicz would say, A Fart on the Elevator. Everyone is forced to endure the fart for one floor until they can get away. Please, answer and elaborate.
 

rico

Well-Known Member
Location
redwoods
I call companies bringing manufacturing back from China to the US, because increased tariffs and reduced corporate taxes made it beneficial to do so, helping them. Granted it was not nearly enough but it happened.
Trump bringing back manufacturing? Please..

https://www.thestreet.com/mishtalk/...o-bring-back-manufacturing-jobs-hows-he-doing

https://www.statesman.com/story/new...ufacturing-job-gains-during-debate/114197350/

https://www.epi.org/publication/reshoring-manufacturing-jobs/
 

rico

Well-Known Member
Location
redwoods
I guess basic economics makes me loony.

I will step out and say there is a way out of the hole we have dug for ourselves which a feeble attempt was made for the past 4 years.

I cant wait for four plus years of going back to what isn't working and hoping it will somehow get better for anyone. Printing money and sending it overseas isn't a good plan. There is a word for continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Who is benefiting from all of this?
Not really sure what fucking planet you are living on, but here on planet Earth no one did a better job of printing money than Trump. The undisputed king of debt and deficit...

https://www.thebalance.com/trump-plans-to-reduce-national-debt-4114401

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...deficits-so-far-budget-group-says-11599669921

And down here on Mother Earth Trump's tarif war and cooperate tax cuts gave us some of the largest trade deficits in history..

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenroberts/2021/01/14/trumps-trade-deficit-legacy-three-largest-in-

history-in-four-years/?sh=5e2e8aba5ba0


https://apnews.com/article/donald-trump-global-trade-north-america-china-united-states-

c6d5a4d935d8d3bca966d2395deee68d
 

Tuebor

Well-Known Member
Location
Here
“This morning, I realized that everything is about to change. No matter how I vote, no matter what I say, lives are never going to be the same.
I have been confused by the hostility of family and friends. I look at people I have known all my life so hate-filled that they agree with opinions they would never express as their own. I think that I may well have entered the Twilight Zone.
You can't justify this insanity. We have become a nation that has lost its collective mind.
We see other countries going Socialist and collapsing, but it seems like a great plan to us.
Somehow it’s un-American for the census to count how many Americans are in America.
People who say there is no such thing as gender are demanding a female President.
Universities that advocate equality, discriminate against Asian-Americans in favor of African-Americans.
Some people are held responsible for things that happened before they were born, and other people are not held responsible for what they are doing right now.
Criminals are caught-and-released to hurt more people, but stopping them is bad because it's a violation of THEIR rights.
People who have never owned slaves should pay slavery reparations to people who have never been slaves.
After legislating gender, if a dude pretends to be a woman, you are required to pretend with him.
It was cool for Joe Biden to "blackmail" the President of Ukraine, but it’s an impeachable offense if Donald Trump inquiries about it.
People who have never been to college should pay the debts of college students who took out huge loans for their degrees.
Immigrants with tuberculosis and polio are welcome, but you’d better be able to prove your dog is vaccinated.
Irish doctors and German engineers who want to immigrate to the US must go through a rigorous vetting process, but any illiterate gang-bangers who jump the southern fence are welcomed.
$5 billion for border security is too expensive, but $1.5 trillion for “free” health care is not.
If you cheat to get into college you go to prison, but if you cheat to get into the country you go to college for free.
And, pointing out all this hypocrisy somehow makes us "racists"!
Nothing makes sense anymore, no values, no morals, no civility and people are dying of a Chinese virus, but it is racist to refer to it as Chinese even though it began in China.
We are clearly living in an upside-down world where right is wrong and wrong is right, where moral is immoral and immoral is moral, where good is evil and evil is good, where killing murderers is wrong, but killing innocent babies is right.
Wake up America. The great unsinkable ship Titanic America has hit an iceberg, is taking on water and sinking fast.”

I don’t know the author but this pretty much sums everything up for me.
What a steaming pile of falsehoods, mischaracterizations, exaggerations, half-truths, and hypocrisy. Sounds like the product of a feeble and frightened mind belonging to a collector of grievances.

Let me guess: the author still woke up in his own house, heated and complete with electricity, indoor plumbing, and internet service. He ate breakfast, and probably one or two more meals that day. He had a choice of 300+ television channels to watch while he ate. He didn’t have to travel more than 10 miles to get that food and might have had someone prepare it for him, partially or wholly, and possibly by someone he doesn’t want to be in this country in the first place. His kids went off to school - even one of his own choice - or maybe attend college (with, heaven forbid, people of a different social, religious, and economic status - unless they go to Falwell or Oral Roberts U). He has a job that provides for all this and more. He was free to choose his line of work or even start his own company. There’s a remote chance he might have to share some public space with someone different from him, like a transgender, but somehow I doubt he would know it yet this threatens his virility. He was able to drive to that job on paved roads with his own automobile and didn’t have to stand in the blowing snow for 45 minutes waiting for a bus that’s a half hour late. His job may or may not be dangerous but if it is, he’s certain that enough safety precautions and equipment are in place that he won’t be killed or maimed. He gets time off from work weekly, if not monthly, and has the free time to spend exercising his freedom of speech by, you know, vandalizing government property or building an RV bomb with materials purchased in our thoroughly capitalistic economy. If he gets caught being naughty, he’s assured a speedy trial by his peers after a rigorous investigation - one that often frustrates him when afforded to people he sees as “them.” He has a wealth of information at his fingertips, available instantly and nearly everywhere at any time. He is free to participate in elections and even to run for an elective office himself. He has a house full of consumer goods that his grandparents couldn’t even imagine, produced by some of the most impoverished people in the world and brought to his doorstep by the click of a button. His household and its possessions are safe from criminals and enemies thanks to a fleet of domestic prisons and multi-billion dollar aircraft carriers floating around the Arabian Sea.

Is there anything more pathetic than the whining tripe of the American white male? It’s shit like this that makes me think, regrettably, that the British were right to have the landed aristocracy run the political system, leaving the commoner “who had neither the time nor temperament” to handle the issues of governing, to plough the land and cobble the shoes.
 

JaredDTS

Member
Location
Kill Devil Hills
I seem to have moved away from Trump and on to larger issues with the economy. If you would like to focus on Trump vs Biden please explain Biden's plan to free us from our economic woes. Im sure Trump sought to help himself and his cohorts to an extent but more favorable trade policy for the US is what we need.

Yes I do believe a ruling class should hold concern for its population. No I dont believe in violence unless it's a last resort which recent events were not. Neither side is free from violent protest. ANTIFA attacking protestors who disagree with them is not an example of reprehensible behavior? Blocking speakers that the left does not agree with is not infringing upon their free speech? Blocking them from social media etc One?

One side seems to think if you dont get in line with their ideology you shouldn't have a voice. Its easy to put words in someone's mouth but everything is not always black and white. Why do you think tyrannical governments throughout history have sought to disarm its population. No politician cares about you or me, just putting themselves in a position to exploit the system for financial gain as long as possible. Both sides go about it the wrong way.
 

JaredDTS

Member
Location
Kill Devil Hills
So you are saying the ruling class should fear the general population because they have guns, did I read that right? Thats exactly the message the mob that raided the capital was relaying. " If we lose an election and dont get what we want we will resort to violence". Most everything else you have posted has been reasonable, but that is telling.

What is it telling of? Your argument is a good example of modern culture. I make one comment that could be interpreted many ways but you see it from your perspective and assume I'm one of them. This is generally what the liberal media has done to anyone who argues against them. They label them a racist or a bigot based on their assumptions to discredit them and invalidate any opinion but their own. Get in line with their thinking or get out.

I would like any of the people who just attack Trump and post articles of his failings to find one good thing that resulted from his administration. If all you can do is hope someone else is president and hate him for your own feelings than the political system has failed and they have succeeded in separating us from each other.
 
Last edited:

owScott

Well-Known Member
Location
Lafayette
What is it telling of? Your argument is a good example of modern culture. I make one comment that could be interpreted many ways but you see it from your perspective and assume I'm one of them. This is generally what the liberal media has done to anyone who argues against them. They label them a racist or a bigot based on their assumptions to discredit them and invalidate any opinion but their own. Get in line with their thinking or get out.

I would like any of the people who just attack Trump and post articles of his failings to find one good thing that resulted from his administration. If all you can do is hope someone else is president and hate him for your own feelings than the political system has failed and they have succeeded in separating us from each other.
Example of modern culture, what does that mean. I am not making an argument or any assumption , I am just reading what you wrote in plain english. You stated if you take away the 2nd amendment the ruling class has no reason to fear the general population. Nothing to interpret there pretty straight forward. What should the ruling class be fearful of? You seem to be saying they should be fearful of guns. Guns = violence or the threat of violence. Whats telling is you advocating for what happened at the capital and dont even know thats what you are doing just as you think calling covid 19 the " chinese virus" isnt racist. What other interpretion is there? Why would you make statements that are inline with "them"if thats not how you feel. Be clear Trump is the reason we are seperated from each other, thats his whole plan. Until people realize Trump has been lying to them this will not change.
 

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