The Games Customers Play

That was an interesting post, Sean. It puts pressure on the customer to "up their game", because that $75.00 fee is just expensive enough to hurt if the customer just wastes the opportunity by not being prepared. It also literally forces the customer to view your time as precious and of value.

The folks you referred to in the last paragraph are too relaxed for your taste, and figure if the estimate is free, you must believe your time is of little value, so why don't we just lollygag through this thing.

Sometimes pain is a good thing. I think this is called "Moral Hazard". It is the reason for insurance deductibles. The higher your deductible, the less likely you are to have an accident, because it will mean more money coming out of your pocket if it does happen. The insurance companies know this, and provide lower premiums for higher deductibles as a result.

Charging a fee for an estimate or a consultation is like charging a higher deductible; it puts some of the economic pain of the time spent where it belongs, which is on the customer who is using up some of your time.

Thanks for your post, Sean.

Tim
 
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I've found over the years that the advice given in a free consultation is rarely acted upon, whereas once the client has paid for consulting time, they have skin in the game and are much more likely to actually utilize the information they've purchased. Free advice is by definition, worthless. I also tell callers who are shopping for the low bid, "I'll save both of us some time, it's never me." Those aren't the clients who appreciate what I bring to the table, so I don't waste their time or more importantly mine.

When I first started out, I had a pucker moment every time I told a client that I don't visit sites without collecting a fee. Now it's routine. I put a lot less miles on my vehicle, because it only rolls when somebody is paying. I don't spend hours out of my life wasting time with tire-kickers. My closing rate is quite satisfactory. Life and business, are good.
 
I might just have to try no-free-estimates and see how it goes. Might initially use it on customers in the outskirts of our service area, just to test the waters, and then expand it from there.
 
TreeLogic said:
I might just have to try no-free-estimates and see how it goes. Might initially use it on customers in the outskirts of our service area, just to test the waters, and then expand it from there.
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Been thinking that on some instinctual level we arborists accept the free estimate paradigm because it is to us like hunting and gathering. Any hunter knows that each time he goes a-hunting there is a good chance he will come home empty handed. Likewise, it is easy for us to accept that going bidding is like going hunting: we might come home empty handed.

But we should recondition those ancient nerves to a new paradigm. We should think of ourselves as portal-to-portal service providers and be paid for all of that time. Cervi knows the way and is smiling back at us.
 
Depends on your location. I highly doubt this would work in a small, relatively low income town like Catskill, Ny. I also usually don't have to drive long distances in heavy traffic where the clock is ticking for estimates. I think this would depend on what niche you occupy.

Now I can see this working in some of the major cities I have worked in, or areas with money, some place warm, where the beer flows like wine, where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano.
 
MikePowers321 said:
Depends on your location. I highly doubt this would work in a small, relatively low income town like Catskill, Ny. I also usually don't have to drive long distances in heavy traffic where the clock is ticking for estimates. I think this would depend on what niche you occupy.

Now I can see this working in some of the major cities I have worked in, or areas with money, some place warm, where the beer flows like wine, where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano.
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Wait a minute, I thought they were swallows ;-)
 
MikePowers321 said:
Depends on your location. I highly doubt this would work in a small, relatively low income town like Catskill, Ny. I also usually don't have to drive long distances in heavy traffic where the clock is ticking for estimates. I think this would depend on what niche you occupy.

Now I can see this working in some of the major cities I have worked in, or areas with money, some place warm, where the beer flows like wine, where beautiful women instinctively flock like the salmon of Capistrano.
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Aspen!
 
Ward& Southsound- so i am not taking on new clients anymore personally. My manager does new estimates. He has 50% close ratio on new biz. We only target the shitty lead sources(web,yellow pages, saw trucks, your guys were next door). We lose maybe 50% of those leads out of the gate. You will be surprised how many will say yes. For us its about quality of life. We are both pretty smart guys that love what we do. We believe we have a good company. Both of us refuse to have our knowledge or company reduced to a price. It allows us to give us good customer service to people that value us because we arent wasting time with people that dont value us. You want people to say no because in our experience they werent going to say yes anyway. Try it for a month. See if it works. The biggest problem with the tree industry is us- we dont value our time, education or trade. We dont demand the money we need to pay people well, save for retirement and have nice equipment. Good luck!
 
When someone is calling about a bid/ consultation, it helps to throw in a some technical jargon.

"During a site visit to inspect and evaluation of your trees, I will be performing a ground-based, visual inspection of your trees' structure, vigor, risk factors, disease issues, and how the site conditions affect each species of tree."

Is not baffing them with BS. It's showing them, in one sentence: this is a technical profession, there are lots of different trees needing different things, there is a lot they've never considered, and i have a lot to consider during an evaluation.​
 
I love when they try to deduce an hourly rate based off snippets I'll say...then try to use that against me later to get a better price on more complicated things.


love
nick
 
One thing I've begun doing on my proposals/contracts is to price each individual service as though I were going to make a trip to perform just that service. Then I make a line item of a substantial discount for all the work being performed concurrently. That way, if the client wants to cherry pick out of the list of proposed services, I can still do the job profitably.
 
ward said:
I believe the ISA Certified Arborist has such requirements (formal education/experience (i.e., "apprenticeship") of 3 years. That is on a par with plumbers, electricians, and (if you subtract the baccalaureate) lawyers in terms of time demand. To accurately assess and describe proper tree work takes a lot of acumen and experience. At least enough to charge $50 a visit, I would think. Until that point when the market catches up with my unimpeachable logic, I'll have to continue doling out free estimates, trying to reign in where they become all too consultory. :(
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ISA has no "apprenticeship" in their requirements. They rarely verify experience but, are getting better as of this year. One can be eligible to test for the CA if they can show three years of business receipts. I believe a journeyman plumber/electrician must have worked under the guidance of a master for five years before becoming one themselves. This is a flaw in ISA's system! Good arborists have wisdom that comes from real on the job experience, not from a book.
 
Steve Connally said:
Don't forget to have the "dog shit clause" written in. I had one on my contracts. Line item cost of $225 to clean up animal feces/disposal prior to work being started. My only error was stating the customer had to make a reasonable effort to dispose of the feces in the work area. Reasonable is only my definition therefore probably not enforceable. It was just a scare tactic and it worked.
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I step in so much dog poo my friends nicknamed me Tony Shitboots.
 
The Opportunist

Customer sees there is minor damage to property. Minor as in bark scratches on walkway, faint tire ruts, scuffs on a 20 year old driveway, crack on a rotten split rail fence, etc...
You point out damage and immediately offer to have fixed hastily. Client sees they can leverage lots of money out of your insurance and refuses. Client has an ambulance chaser contact your insurance and they get a grand for a $50 dollar fix. I've had this happen 3 times to me in ten years. It sucks but it seems there's little you can do.
 
Yup, been there! The neighbor's corrugated steel shed was so old and rusty, I was afraid if one of the guys broke wind it would fall down. But one wayward stub hops the fence and puts a little cosmetic dent in it, and we're out $500 for a new shed.
 
Jeff said:
Yup, been there! The neighbor's corrugated steel shed was so old and rusty, I was afraid if one of the guys broke wind it would fall down. But one wayward stub hops the fence and puts a little cosmetic dent in it, and we're out $500 for a new shed.
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I try to bid though the roof if I get the feeling a potential client would do this to me. If I get the job I am like a ballerina in a china shop.
 
I dont have enough time to tell all the stories how I've been screwed like this. Either get stuck taking money off the bill repairing something I didn't damage or hauling stump mulch not in the contract. Just remember just because it's in the contract doesn't mean anything unless you take them to court. I know that because I paid for an $800 plumber twice for an unmarked well cap specifically mentioned in the contract. I did end up having repeat business from this customer and made about $20k off them in a 5 year period but if I had refused to pay for the Plumber I'd have lost him and referrals from him.
 
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