Fair enough for a little poo but in spring when you literally cannot see the lawn at all because shit is 3 layers deep, screw that. Spring melt is the worst because no one cleans all winter the snow hides it to make a big shitty mess. That we'd haul through our clothes,gear, truck, next clients place and if they and I don't have a dog we shouldn't smell like shit cause you do and you are to lazy to clean up
The Games Customers Play
- Thread starter ward
- Start date
climbhightree
Branched out member
- Location
- Lebanon, Pa USA
This happen years ago, and is one of the reasons I require signatures now. I didn't know it was a renter, till after the work was started. I should have stopped immediately, but was told by the neighbor she (the renter) has paid for and done a lot of work to the property. I now wonder if she truly paid...I know I never got my 2 grand. Since I didn't have any signature, email, or go ahead voicemail I eventually just let go.
The other job that convinced me to get signatures, was a job where we removing an 80' Hemlock right next to a guy's house. We were there all day, he walked by our truck several times and I had a couple conversations with him. He was asking about the stump, and at that time I didn’t do them. After getting the tree delimbed, the top off, and cleaned up we left for the day. The next day we came back to block down the log, and he came out and told me I wasn't the company he had signed the estimate with...and had a competitor's estimate with his signature on it.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
The learning pains of growing a company hurt sometimes. There are lots of great suggestions being shared in this thread.
Having an estimate that is clear and written is very important.
If I couldn't meet a client I would have them mark trees in some way. Flagging tape works as we all know. Something that worked well for me was to suggest that they spray paint a dot on the flair in an inconspicuous place using a dull color...black/gray/brown all work...if it's a trim. Bright color for removal. Hard to change the scope of work with paint markings.
No client would ever be able to compare the work I would do by price with anyone else. It's not like buying Campbell's soup at various grocery stores. Even a removal...what is the cleanup? What about yard damage?
Having an estimate that is clear and written is very important.
If I couldn't meet a client I would have them mark trees in some way. Flagging tape works as we all know. Something that worked well for me was to suggest that they spray paint a dot on the flair in an inconspicuous place using a dull color...black/gray/brown all work...if it's a trim. Bright color for removal. Hard to change the scope of work with paint markings.
No client would ever be able to compare the work I would do by price with anyone else. It's not like buying Campbell's soup at various grocery stores. Even a removal...what is the cleanup? What about yard damage?
- Location
- Colorado
Ward- you are absolutely correct. We have walked away from job opportunities where they wanted something done to a tree that we didn't agree with. Even after educating them they stand firm. We had an HOA call us out to bid in removing a dozen locust trees. Beautiful, healthy, mature trees that they dint want to pay the trim maintenance on. Some HOAs are spending thousands of dollars to get those beautiful trees and this one wanted them removed. We walked away, a few weeks later the trees were gone.
Free estimates. It is driving our company crazy. Plumbers charge, lawyers charge, electricians charge. We are hurting ourselves by not charging anything. Our knowledge, our expertise, our time is not free. We worked for it and by going out for free, we devalue our industry and expertise. Even a $20 estimate charge that is waived if they decide to use the company is better than nothing. I don't mind when a customer gets multiple estimates, in fact it's great on large jobs because they need to know our price is competitive. The customers that call and "are too busy" to meet with you any day of the week at any time are the ones fishing for the freebies and if you show up they have 4+ estimates on their door.
TreeLogic
Branched out member
- Location
- Coastal SC
I'm sorry, but I have to agree with the anti-dogpoo feelings. I literally had a turd climb up my line once, when descending from a tree, and it went right into my friction hitch. It was a fresh one too. (I know, I know - it wouldn't have happend if I was climbing SRT) 
This job was for a rental owner. The tenants kept tall grass in the back yard, and apparently had huge dogs. It wasn't real easy to see the poop, or clean it up first, for that matter. Of course then, you drag brush to the front, and putting it in the chipper you end up with poo on your hands. Pretty demoralizing. Not what I envisioned when I fell in love with caring for trees. But since arborists are - many times - seen as glorified trash men, I guess I should've expected it.
Dear society, we are badasses that work one of the toughest, most technical, demanding, yet most fulfilling and helpful jobs in the world. Respect us and pay us for it. Thank you! Hopefully, now you might better understand the "turd tax".
OK, off the high horse. Carry on.
This job was for a rental owner. The tenants kept tall grass in the back yard, and apparently had huge dogs. It wasn't real easy to see the poop, or clean it up first, for that matter. Of course then, you drag brush to the front, and putting it in the chipper you end up with poo on your hands. Pretty demoralizing. Not what I envisioned when I fell in love with caring for trees. But since arborists are - many times - seen as glorified trash men, I guess I should've expected it.
Dear society, we are badasses that work one of the toughest, most technical, demanding, yet most fulfilling and helpful jobs in the world. Respect us and pay us for it. Thank you! Hopefully, now you might better understand the "turd tax".
OK, off the high horse. Carry on.
ward
Participating member
- Location
- Unincorporated Clackamas, OR
A more antiseptic/legalistic term I've seen used is "pet waste" as in "please remove pet waste" from the scene before the show begins. Thank you, T.F. M., for the example.I'm sorry, but I have to agree with the anti-dogpoo feelings. I literally had a turd climb up my line once, when descending from a tree, and it went right into my friction hitch. It was a fresh one too. (I know, I know - it wouldn't have happend if I was climbing SRT)
This job was for a rental owner. The tenants kept tall grass in the back yard, and apparently had huge dogs. It wasn't real easy to see the poop, or clean it up first, for that matter. Of course then, you drag brush to the front, and putting it in the chipper you end up with poo on your hands. Pretty demoralizing. Not what I envisioned when I fell in love with caring for trees. But since arborists are - many times - seen as glorified trash men, I guess I should've expected it.
Dear society, we are badasses that work one of the toughest, most technical, demanding, yet most fulfilling and helpful jobs in the world. Respect us and pay us for it. Thank you! Hopefully, now you might better understand the "turd tax".
OK, off the high horse. Carry on.
Steve Connally
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Suffolk, Virginia
My contract said pet feces. It was quite professional and I never had to charge a single person. They were all willing to avoid the extra charge.
MikePowers321
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Leeds, Ny
ManI'm sorry, but I have to agree with the anti-dogpoo feelings. I literally had a turd climb up my line once, when descending from a tree, and it went right into my friction hitch. It was a fresh one too. (I know, I know - it wouldn't have happend if I was climbing SRT)
This job was for a rental owner. The tenants kept tall grass in the back yard, and apparently had huge dogs. It wasn't real easy to see the poop, or clean it up first, for that matter. Of course then, you drag brush to the front, and putting it in the chipper you end up with poo on your hands. Pretty demoralizing. Not what I envisioned when I fell in love with caring for trees. But since arborists are - many times - seen as glorified trash men, I guess I should've expected it.
Dear society, we are badasses that work one of the toughest, most technical, demanding, yet most fulfilling and helpful jobs in the world. Respect us and pay us for it. Thank you! Hopefully, now you might better understand the "turd tax".
OK, off the high horse. Carry on.
! Soft one right through the friction hitch....that's brutal. Glad you're still with us, Will.
TreeLogic
Branched out member
- Location
- Coastal SC
I wouldn't wish it on anybodyMan
I noticed it just before reaching the hitch. I grabbed a stick and brushed off as much as I could but then had to make the conscious decision to go ahead and let the rest through the hitch. That hitch and rope got a washing that night.
Treezybreez
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Lancaster, SC
Logic, that painted a funny yet repulsive picture. Did you travel any faster after the hitch got lubbed? I think I'd rather be stung by bees than have that kind of an airial rendezvous.
- Location
- MD
I don't sell work except for side jobs, but today I experienced a fresh turd to the rope bag, and I'm sure there is fecal material all over the boots and clothes I wore. It is frustrating when your rep is going over the job with you, you both see it all over the yard, and then he goes and chit chats with the client who is usually an otherwise decent person.
MikePowers321
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Leeds, Ny
shit happens
ward
Participating member
- Location
- Unincorporated Clackamas, OR
Lots a worse ways a client can crap on you than with doggie doo, too!
TreeLogic
Branched out member
- Location
- Coastal SC
I can't really say if the poo poo lubed up the descent or not. I was too focused on getting down and carefully getting all the equipment that needed to be washed into the right truck. I do laugh at it now, but when I'm bidding a job with said poo all over the place, I definitely take it into consideration. We live and we learn.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
We are not alone. These client game strategies are just that and applied in every business. Take a course in negotiating and you'll find many of them and how to counter them. That's how I spotted one in a previous career. It was a classic strategy. Once I understood the client's "game" I was able to play to a win but, more importantly a win-win (another negotiating strategy from the Harvard negotiating handbook, "Getting to Yes"). Don't be put off by people trying to get the best deal. Yes, it's amazingly wonderful when clients just nod and sign the contract while handing you their wallet. But, once again, your a business person first, tree guy second. Act like a business person. Know your competitive advantage over other companies in your area. Be prepared to explain the value in your service. Price each tree as if it's the only one your going to do then calculate a "volume discount" and show it on the estimate with an explanation. Be clear that their is a minimum cost to just show up so, taking one tree or a bunch out of the estimate will not result in a line for line price drop. If you are going to do something for free, show the cost or normal charge for it then apply the discount. By doing it this way they know it's VALUE! Be prepared to walk or you will never be able to win.
As for lot lines, you are the professional and this is part of our profession and thus you should know. Not being able to deal with this makes you, in the eyes of the law, either negligent or incompetent. Which one do you want it to be? Boundary trees are suspect, period. Ask for a survey–they'll usually have one since most mortgages require it–and if it's dated then presume the tree has grown onto the neighbor's side. Ask if they have discussed it with their neighbor. Let them know you'll also be wanting to talk with the neighbor since you may need to obtain permission to enter onto their property. This is similar to the city tree the client wants you to prune, remove or deal with somehow. Know what that town ordinance is. Around me, the easy way to tell is to measure 10' from the curb, in Ontario it was 33' from the center of the roadway. If the tree falls even partially in that it's to be considered a town/city tree and any restrictions apply. I've had to submit a request in writing to prune a tree and receive written approval. Client was happy I knew the law and help to facilitate their request. The town appreciated that a professional was doing the work and that they weren't going to be left dealing with the aftermath. The day I did the work, a neighbor saw me in the tree and called the town. The inspector rolled up, nodded and waved and continued on his merry way, all smiles.
Dog crap..... we'll clear away a few turds but do notify clients that they need to clean the yard prior to our arrival. Only once did I leave a job site due to an horrendous amount of it and a call to the client that we would only return once the yard was completely cleared of it. Yeah, 3 deep and nary a blade of grass to be seen.
Building bridges is much more useful than burning them...
As for lot lines, you are the professional and this is part of our profession and thus you should know. Not being able to deal with this makes you, in the eyes of the law, either negligent or incompetent. Which one do you want it to be? Boundary trees are suspect, period. Ask for a survey–they'll usually have one since most mortgages require it–and if it's dated then presume the tree has grown onto the neighbor's side. Ask if they have discussed it with their neighbor. Let them know you'll also be wanting to talk with the neighbor since you may need to obtain permission to enter onto their property. This is similar to the city tree the client wants you to prune, remove or deal with somehow. Know what that town ordinance is. Around me, the easy way to tell is to measure 10' from the curb, in Ontario it was 33' from the center of the roadway. If the tree falls even partially in that it's to be considered a town/city tree and any restrictions apply. I've had to submit a request in writing to prune a tree and receive written approval. Client was happy I knew the law and help to facilitate their request. The town appreciated that a professional was doing the work and that they weren't going to be left dealing with the aftermath. The day I did the work, a neighbor saw me in the tree and called the town. The inspector rolled up, nodded and waved and continued on his merry way, all smiles.
Dog crap..... we'll clear away a few turds but do notify clients that they need to clean the yard prior to our arrival. Only once did I leave a job site due to an horrendous amount of it and a call to the client that we would only return once the yard was completely cleared of it. Yeah, 3 deep and nary a blade of grass to be seen.
Building bridges is much more useful than burning them...
southsoundtree01
New member
- Location
- Olympia
Get them to clean it asap, and keep up with it until project day, giving decomposition some time to get rid of remnants.
I can easily imagine a teenager sent out the day before the job to clean up.
I can easily imagine a teenager sent out the day before the job to clean up.
southsoundtree01
New member
- Location
- Olympia
If they are too busy to meet, I am way too busy to meet. "You can just go by when your in the neighborhood tomorrow it the next day right, and tell me what I need."
If they need me to tell them what they need, it's not a free estimate, it's a consultation.
Tr33Climb3r
Participating member
- Location
- Wisconsin
The people that charge for estimate time don't have "unskilled industry" attached to them. Plumbers, electricians, lawyers have to either have formal education or go through an apprentice program before they can practice on their own.
fall_risk
Participating member
- Location
- Philadelphia
Well, I know I sure as shit couldn't have become as proficient as I am without working with arborists and tree workers that were more skilled than I was for several years. I still treasure the times when it happens now. We may not have a formal system of apprenticeship, but that doesn't mean one doesn't exist. I for one come to this site to improve my journeyman skill at the virtual feet of masters.
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Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
TimBr
Official Well Known Greeter
- Location
- Northern Virginia
I'm sorry, but I have to agree with the anti-dogpoo feelings. I literally had a turd climb up my line once, when descending from a tree, and it went right into my friction hitch. It was a fresh one too. (I know, I know - it wouldn't have happend if I was climbing SRT)
One more advantage of SRT that I was not aware of.
If I was a die-hard DdRT guy, the dilemma would be if I found my hitch to be miraculously acting better for me than ever before. What do I do now? Get a dog, just so I can bring him to the job with me to provide me with my daily dose of "magic hitch lubricant"? Decisions, decisions.
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Fruit tree holding on by a thread, client wants to get another year out of it. Thoughts?- Started by climbingmonkey24
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