Stupid cabling idea

Jemco said:
Excuse me Mrs Robinson, is that a come along up in your Oak tree?

Yes, isn't it marvelous?

Jemco
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When you're the only show in town, there is some leeway. You'll see I used the word "defendable" earlier in this thread. It is imperative that I can explain myself and argue for the validity of anything that I do on any job, down to the smallest cut or placement of gear under the tree before I suit up.
 
It's more a matter of adhereing to a tried and proven system until something superior comes along.

But replacing a proven system with something demonstrably inferior's unethical.

Why can't you just do it right?

Galvanized steel's fairly impervious to rats n flames, and has been for a hundred years.

That's why the Wichita linemen are so sold on it......

Jemco
 
Why can't I just do it right?
Come on, now. How do you think advancements happen?

I've run a few spans of cable. I'm pretty comfortable setting them up. It's fairly efficient, as long as we leave the shop with every piece that we need to do it... unless I am not there. I didn't get to run about half of the cable on the job we just did, and I know it was slow and chaotic when I was not on job.
It's not just my own mild inconvenience motivating me.
 
Can you give an example of what you consider an advanced cabling system or component that's superior to the traditional all galvanized steel standard today?

Other than leaving a come along up top?

Jemco
 
Jemco said:
Can you give an example of what you consider an advanced cabling system or component that's superior to the traditional all galvanized steel standard today?

Other than leaving a come along up top?

Jemco
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Honestly, there just isn't much out there that can hold a candle to through bolts connected to cable. I'm not sure what that has to do with trying to leave a comealong in the tree.
 
I suppose it all depends on what you're cabling. If you're cabling an ancient white oak tree that's going to need the cabling in place for decades, wire rope and steel hardware are the only way to go. But, around here, that's a very rare job.

Cabling fruit trees is only for structure development, and is temporary. The trees grow fast enough that any cabling and spanners are removed in 3 years or less. Usually after the second year. The synthetic rope is light and takes up little space, easy to work with, and has none of the physical hazards associated with working with EHS cable, nor any of the tools required. No hardware, either. Connections are made, at least for me, with polyester webbing slings around stems, not drilling holes through them. I'd say it was the vastly superior product for my purposes.

Perhaps a narrow view of what constitutes cabling disallows a broader view of what constitutes a superior product for a subset of tree work that's outside of a brute force approach.

I'll leave the come-along idea out of the equation because I think there's lots better options than that.
 
It makes some sense to use noninvasive synthetics to support overladen orchards annually.

But not as much sense as pruning your orchard trees correctly to bear the weight without artificial labor intensive assistance.

Cabling should only be utilized in the presence of genuine structural faults.

Pruning's always preferable to cabling for perceived weight bearing issues.

Jemco
 
Jemco said:
It makes some sense to use noninvasive synthetics to support overladen orchards annually.

But not as much sense as pruning your orchard trees correctly to bear the weight without artificial labor intensive assistance.

Cabling should only be utilized in the presence of genuine structural faults.

Pruning's always preferable to cabling for perceived weight bearing issues.

Jemco
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Always.
 
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Jemco said:
Cabling should only be utilized in the presence of genuine structural faults.

Pruning's always preferable to cabling for perceived weight bearing issues.
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Then I can only assume that all of the literature on developing sound structure for northern orchards is complete hogwash. I can certainly see orchards in California, Arkansas and other places that aren't Nebraska not needing much in the way of help... but then, I doubt that those orchards have to deal with their trees having 1" to 2" thick ice on the branches during a blizzard, and for as much as two weeks afterwards.

They might not be growing Keefer Pear trees, either. I'd love to see an effective pruning technique for them, that developed good structure for high production that didn't involve spreaders for codominant stems... and a lot of them... that are within six inches of each other.

One of our residential properties in a small town has fruit trees on it, too. We would rather have trees on it that produced an edible product, than something like a Bradford Pear that looks the same, but has no fruit. I'll try to get out and get some pics from that property in the next couple of days. Because the orchard trees on a property outside of town have more precedence over these trees, we were unable to "cable" the peach trees, or prune the Keefer Pears on that property. Winter slammed us with storms earlier than normal, and we ran out of time.

The peach trees are a disaster, on that property. I will probably have to replace them in spring. The ones I cabled on the orchard, on the other hand, are fine. The "perceived" weight bearing issues were about a half inch of ice on the branches... I could perceive the problem by noting that these branches weren't normally lying on the ground.

I have no doubt that "correct" pruning on a California peach tree might be all that's needed. I also have years of practical experience on peach trees grown in Nebraska that tell me you'll be shoving a hell of a lot of peach tree branches through a chipper if you rely entirely on pruning technique to keep them in production.
 
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I'm not a pro, but my impression is that high yield fruit trees didn't happen on their own, and don't survive very well without a lot of our help. Kinda like grape vines. I don't know anybody who cultivates Fox/Frost grapes for production. Those have been around forever without our help, but their yield usually sucks. I harvest them for making wild grape jelly, but then I'm known for doing crazy stuff. I suspect the yield from one good grape cultivar vine exceeds what I get from all the wild grapes on my four acres.
 
Suggesting cabling's better than pruning for fruit weight support, even in an orchard's a bit of a stretch.

But applying such logic to the commercial tree industry at large is silly.

Annual props n supports in an orchard's a far cry from the ANSI Cabling n Bracing Standards.

Next you'll be suggesting leaving saplings guyed n braced in case the wind blows really hard?

Jemco
 
Jemco said:
Suggesting cabling's better than pruning for fruit weight support...
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Who suggested that?

Jemco said:
Annual props n supports in an orchard's a far cry from the ANSI Cabling n Bracing Standards.
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Did anyone suggest otherwise?
Jemco said:
Next you'll be suggesting leaving saplings guyed n braced in case the wind blows really hard?
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Next, you'll be suggesting that rather than brace/guy a sapling, you should just prune it some more.
 
I got the impression that your snow loads demanded cabling or else?

Have I misunderstood something?

Snow laden orchards must be cabled or else?

Jemco
 
That's not the same thing as fruit weight. But, the snow isn't the big problem... this is the Great Plains, there are no mountains or forests to stop the winds and the Gulf Stream flows up and down right through this state. The ice storms are the biggest problem. Sub-zero temperatures and 60 mph winds leave trees and power lines covered in ice. Not a little bit of ice, a LOT of ice... we've had FIVE INCH THICK ice on stuff, here. A local guy here made national news with his pics of barbed wire fences sagging or fallen over from the weight of the ice. The diameter of the ice around the wire was just shy of ten inches in some of those pics.

I'm saying that what makes no sense to you in California, might make a whole lot more sense if you had to put up with this crap every other winter.
 
Annual propping n support techniques in frigid climes isn't listed in the ANSI Standards for the tree industry my dear colleague.

Perhaps the Farmer's Almanac?

Jemco
 
Do you understand the basic fundamentals of why crossing branches can be skinnier and weaker at their origination point when compared to their termination point?

The reason cutting away the supporting branch causes the the supported branch to fail?

Do you understand why supported branches become dependent on that support for life?

There's something fundamentally askew about your reasoning.

I can buy why extreme environs might require artificial support in an orchard scenario. Sorta like artificial heating in a cold snap.

There are exceptions to every rule n standard we're asked to follow, no doubt.

Makes me sympathetic to the poor ANSI Committees writing the standards.....

Jemco
 
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