Soil Testing

TreeVB

TreeVB

Branched out member
Location
Boise, Idaho
I am looking for suggestions for a "beginner", user friendly soil test kit as well as online documents to learn more about soil/tree relations. I just started my small company and have already been asked multiple times about fertilizing. I dont have any first hand experience with it and have been turning them in the direction of getting their soil tested first, having to send them to another company. Customers seem to be blown away, in a good way, to that response so I figured it would be a smart business move to learn about that aspect and offer that service as well. Any input would be much appreciated. Thank you all!
 
I send mine to a lab.

Dont know about Idaho but I would think with all your agriculture and forestry there, a lab is likely to be found. Do you have a University Extension you can call to get pointed in the right direction?
 
Thats a good Idea. Ill have to chat with Boise state university and see if they can help direct me locally.
Where could I find your online resources?
 
This is Sylvia, The "S" in DSmc.

An important fact to keep in mind is most trees in landscape situations do not need fertilization. The minerals are in the soil, it is the availability that is the issue. Improving the microbial activity to enhance uptake is a better approach. That does not mean adding biologicals to the soil; they are already there. The biggest limiting factors, generally speaking, in our managed landscapes are compaction, water management and overall bad management practices. Check those out first as they limit microbial activity just as much as limiting above plant growth.

Where abouts in north Idaho are you? I am in western Montana, born in Boise, Idaho. I send my soil samples to Midwest Labs in Nebraska. Not because they know our soils, but because they offer the Solvita/Haney test which gives you microbial respiration as well as nutrient availability on an "immediate", "intermediate" and "long term" basis when combined with their standard testing. The agronomists there are also wonderful about answering questions. Whatever lab you use, stick with it to become familiar with the numbers and the methods they use to derive the information. Bouncing around from lab to lab can give you an apple-to-orange comparison. Not helpful.

Also keep in mind soil testing labs' largest clientele are agricultural in nature. Their recommendations have no relevance to managed landscapes with diverse species including our trees which are long-lived woody perennials, not seasonal crops with high yield requirements.

For general information on beginning to learn some mineral interactions, I believe Spectrum Analysis labs has about the best library. Again, keep in mind they will talk from an ag perspective so watch out about taking recommendations from the publications, just go with the overall pertinent information.
 
I have written a couple of articles published in TCI Magazine on this topic. They might give you a general oversight from which to start. Sept 2016 (Vol XXVII, No 9, pg 38) and Feb 2017 (Vol XXVIII, No 2, 24). Both of these are available to read on line at tcia.org.

I spoke at TCI EXPO last year on this topic and will again this year in Columbus, OH. Soil health is a topic we overlook in our industry and is very important for the development of our residential landscapes.

Sylvia
 
Warning, this post is typical redtree. A bit back and forth. Edited like pulp fiction. Wow excellent perspective Sylvia. I think referring people like Sylvia and DSMc is the way to go. I'm a professional tree surgeon, intermediate in disease and pest details, and amateur in soil testing and analysis. I know when a soil is thin and needs help by improving soil structure, it's just not something I do, but I should. I wish I had a chemically sensitive soil specialist that I could refer. I do refer a guy who deals with our local university but I think he's gotten to the point where he knows the problem without even having to send for a test. Part of the problem is that trees need a mess of forest debris on the ground and people want grass. So in comes the chemical band aid fix. Not that this doesn't improve the vigour a few notches, assuming the correct potion is applied. But this is shifting and shelter logs in gardens can actually look good while they slowly rot and retain moist cool soil underneath. We need to start cutting designer shelter logs to place on exposed soils, whether it's a new tree or an old one. Ideally half rotten logs, I'm assuming this would increase the organic tea effect during rain and mitigate the nitrogen pulling of fresh wood. Just one piece of the puzzle though. People that send soil for testing regularly have the experience of understanding the local soil type(s). I think we need to divide and conquer. I think that it is true as Guy said that we can't divide a tree up. But if we specialize while still understanding when we need to refer another specialist, then the client respects that and generally continues to use two companies. And more importantly the tree has a better chance. It's more than just about fertilizer and micorizhae. It's more than the presence of the nutrients. It's also about the capability of the roots to pull the nutrient out of the soil. If you want to divide and conquer think of this. As Owen Goltz mentioned at ISA Ontario conference, The industry needs more soil guys. I think this should entail physical manipulation probably more often than chemical or biological manipulation. If you build it, they will come. I think Owen said the order of priority is physical, biological, then chemical. Rain forest soil is almost free of nutrients. The soil picks up a nutrient and the dominant plant picks it up instantly. The soil is not for storage it is for passage. A road more than a parking lot. A diverse organic layer which is a ideally highly textured with deadfall and hardly a layer at all, is the example to look at. The debris in forested areas of our cities is looked at as mess. That mess slows drying wind, reduces soil temperature, and creates a slow release fertilizer. You don't want an annual vitamin pill either. You want a diverse diet of fresh vegetables, every week. I'm planting a few dozen saplings in a few weeks so I'll try to remember to make a few shelter logs that are prettier. I also have a good reference if Guy doesn't beat me to it.


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Sylvia is 100% correct. For example, most of my plant nutrient problems arise from acid loving trees planted in limey, compacted, disturbed soils...pretty basic problem. Native and alkaline tolerant plants tend to perform better with a few exceptions.

By all means, learn as much as you can about all the plant nutrients but approach remediation and treatments from a tree soil perspective. Forest soils are undisturbed, rich in plant debris OM, recalcitrant OM (like humic acids, fulvic acids, glomalin), and a higher amount of fungal diversity than grassland and ag soils. It's a lot to learn about but if you focus on trying to recreate forest soils, you're on the right path. Physical problems like compaction and inversion often take a backseat to high NPK fertilizations and othe PHC crap that can mask real issues.

Unfortunately, most of us aren't involved in the design/build side of things.
 
Redtree is probably right too but I think he threw a beef stew recipe in there as well. Or was it gumbo? I dont know, something involving logs I think...
 
Our industry definitely needs more professionals knowledgeable about soils. This is where it all begins and ends. You won't have soil without soil organisms and plants. As JD pointed out, unfortunately we inherit disturbed soils with "issues". But that doesn't mean they are beyond hope, nor should it mean they need to be kept on artificial life-support.

I believe the arborist can become the "go-to" person when it comes to soil health which will benefit the entire landscape. You cannot segregate the components. They are interrelated. What is done to one aspect affects another. So you can't "divide and conquer." The homeowner wants their turf grass and their flower beds, not just their trees. They can co-exist if managed properly.

Plants need healthy soil or at least would prefer it. It is up to us to figure out how to make this work. When you are thinking of creating that forest floor, determine how and where in the landscape debris can be allowed to accumulate without offending the aesthetics of the homeowner. Is it a nearby flower bed? Is it the mulched area beneath the tree which may also contain companion plants?

Redtree's idea of shelter logs is good (we have numerous ones on our place). As they decompose, they provide habitat for numerous organisms while they gradually improve the soil beneath.

I do not really go for the idea of thinking of the soil as a highway for nutrients passing through. The soil is absolutely for storage; a reservoir of oxygen, water, organic matter and mineral elements.

Well structured soil will have the proper distribution of macro and micropores to allow air and water to fluctuate, creating the opportunity for plants to access the elements as they do become available. The soil holds these elements as readily available (in the soil solution), less readily but still available (held by OM and clay sites) and the long-term storage of elements in the parent material.

Our management of the soil should not focus primarily on physical manipulation which can burn up organic matter. We (humans) cannot "build" soil. We disrupt it. The soil organisms in conjunction with the plants themselves are the builders, this is the manipulation the soil needs. They have the ability to create structure as well as the ability to break through compaction.
 
The nutrient management modules in JDs link have a caveat stating these are no longer credited for CCA CEUs (that is Certified Crop Advisor ). They have not been updated for quite awhile and some of the information is not entirely correct. With that said, they will give you some basics but remember their recommendations and point of reference are all about ag. But that is going to be the case in most plant nutrient information. So pay no attention when they get to application rates. And Montana soils are different from Idaho soils, particularly if you are in the panhandle.
 
No argument here, partly why I have 3 ring binders and hard drives full of stuff like this. Like a file for each nutrient, tpes of OM, soil biology, soil chemistry etc. You have to read a lot of different sources and sort through the things that dont apply to woodies.

http://www.spectrumanalytic.com
 
DSMc said:
This is Sylvia, The "S" in DSmc.

An important fact to keep in mind is most trees in landscape situations do not need fertilization. The minerals are in the soil, it is the availability that is the issue. Improving the microbial activity to enhance uptake is a better approach. That does not mean adding biologicals to the soil; they are already there. The biggest limiting factors, generally speaking, in our managed landscapes are compaction, water management and overall bad management practices. Check those out first as they limit microbial activity just as much as limiting above plant growth.

Where abouts in north Idaho are you? I am in western Montana, born in Boise, Idaho. I send my soil samples to Midwest Labs in Nebraska. Not because they know our soils, but because they offer the Solvita/Haney test which gives you microbial respiration as well as nutrient availability on an "immediate", "intermediate" and "long term" basis when combined with their standard testing. The agronomists there are also wonderful about answering questions. Whatever lab you use, stick with it to become familiar with the numbers and the methods they use to derive the information. Bouncing around from lab to lab can give you an apple-to-orange comparison. Not helpful.

Also keep in mind soil testing labs' largest clientele are agricultural in nature. Their recommendations have no relevance to managed landscapes with diverse species including our trees which are long-lived woody perennials, not seasonal crops with high yield requirements.

For general information on beginning to learn some mineral interactions, I believe Spectrum Analysis labs has about the best library. Again, keep in mind they will talk from an ag perspective so watch out about taking recommendations from the publications, just go with the overall pertinent information.
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Thank you for your great response Sylvia. Like I said above I am a total noob when it comes to this. This confirms that I at least gave the customers a good suggestion about getting soil tests first because your first paragraph was my basic understanding.
DSMc said:
This is Sylvia, The "S" in DSmc.

An important fact to keep in mind is most trees in landscape situations do not need fertilization. The minerals are in the soil, it is the availability that is the issue. Improving the microbial activity to enhance uptake is a better approach. That does not mean adding biologicals to the soil; they are already there. The biggest limiting factors, generally speaking, in our managed landscapes are compaction, water management and overall bad management practices. Check those out first as they limit microbial activity just as much as limiting above plant growth.

Where abouts in north Idaho are you? I am in western Montana, born in Boise, Idaho. I send my soil samples to Midwest Labs in Nebraska. Not because they know our soils, but because they offer the Solvita/Haney test which gives you microbial respiration as well as nutrient availability on an "immediate", "intermediate" and "long term" basis when combined with their standard testing. The agronomists there are also wonderful about answering questions. Whatever lab you use, stick with it to become familiar with the numbers and the methods they use to derive the information. Bouncing around from lab to lab can give you an apple-to-orange comparison. Not helpful.

Also keep in mind soil testing labs' largest clientele are agricultural in nature. Their recommendations have no relevance to managed landscapes with diverse species including our trees which are long-lived woody perennials, not seasonal crops with high yield requirements.

For general information on beginning to learn some mineral interactions, I believe Spectrum Analysis labs has about the best library. Again, keep in mind they will talk from an ag perspective so watch out about taking recommendations from the publications, just go with the overall pertinent information.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your responses Sylvia! This is kind of my basic understanding which is why I have been directing clients to call company "x" to get a soil test. I will definitely check out Spectrum Analysis Labs and see what I can learn, and thanks for the warning about the Ag perspective.
I am actually in Boise now, just haven't changed my info yet from when I was up in Coeur d' Alene.
 
Wow everyone, thanks for your awesome responses! Its a lot to take in and a ton of research to look into and learn about. Will be doing lots of reading in my near future. As far as taking a soil sample to send in, are there any suggestions on the best way to do that?
 
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