So.. Free Climbing?

DSMc said:
Critical thinking, which by the way is your greatest tool in the quest for coming home every day, says that many questions will have more than one correct answer. Do yourself a favor and think about how often that is true.
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In general, I couldn't agree more about critical thinking - and btw we're not talking about a general situation here we're talking about climbing without fall protection. For real I would have never fathomed there would be this much "support" for a professional climbing system that would do away with fall protection. o_O

But I'm glad you brought up critical thinking because you're missing the point of it and that is: there's always another way.

If your critical thinking has lead you to free climbing then by most accounts you are an idiot. Not only because you think you can trust your biological, sweaty, slippery, hydration-dependent, allergen-threatened, and largely-predictable-but-never-totally-predictable body more than rated fall protection; but because you lack the discipline to realize the ultimate alternate option: Descend & walk away.

If the job is that critical, come back with another solution that doesn't require climbing at all.
 
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We’re in an apples and oranges discussion here. No one is arguing that anyone should be free climbing while working. I’m arguing that free climbing is a fundamental skill and one of the building blocks for being a good rope and harness climber. Most of us figured that out when we were kids. Forest Service has their reasons for including it in their manual, anyone that concerned about it should ask them why.
-AJ
 
Yea I'll do it for fun or when I'm working out and only on really healthy, easy short trees. But if I have to make any cuts(handsaw), free hangers, or do anything besides go up and right back down I bring a lanyard and harness at the very least.
If I'm working for someone else or at a customer's house then I'm always in a harness, rope, lanyard the works etc.
 
Well, then... as long as there is historical precedent... it must be right. I say we go back to curing syphilis by draining half your blood out and shoving a hot poker... well, you know. Whatever it was that the experts of the time said was ok. I mean, nothing has changed. The earth is still flat.
 
Free climbing is just another skill a well rounded tree-man should have in their toolbox.

There is a time and a place for it and I frequently "free climb" using spurs on the upper portion of certain conifers when ascending to find a TIP..
 
rico said:
Free climbing is just another skill a well rounded tree-man should have in their toolbox.

There is a time and a place for it and I frequently "free climb" using spurs on the upper portion of certain conifers when ascending to find a TIP..
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The thing I was notorious for as a removal specialist in tight confines?

Taking my my pull rope in either hand, and wearing only gaffs, running up the trunk like a Hawaiian lumberjack, where if yu let go of the rope having kicked out? Down yu go,

Now as an old fella, I use my bigshot n a trunk tie!

The odds are against you displaying young man bravado too long.

But settin a rope in two minutes certainly speeds the process along to its desired resting spot.

Not taking unnecessary chances ever killed anybody I know of.

I'd bet 90 percent of climbers unclip from their bodylines at height at some point during working a spreading decurrent tree. As long as I'm comfortably secure n entwined up there, I don't mind un clipping without a lanyard backup at all,

Keeping multiple lines from becoming inadvertent lowering lines often requires unclipping n sorting lines out.

Gotta admit right foot ascenders make decurrent redirected prune's considerably easier.

Which do you blokes consider more physically demanding, strategic removals, or large fine prunes?

IME it's the latter.

Jemco
 
Jemco said:
The thing I was notorious for as a removal specialist in tight confines?

Taking my my pull rope in either hand, and wearing only gaffs, running up the trunk like a Hawaiian lumberjack, where if yu let go of the rope having kicked out? Down yu go,

Now as an old fella, I use my bigshot n a trunk tie!

The odds are against you displaying young man bravado too long.

But settin a rope in two minutes certainly speeds the process along to its desired resting spot.

Not taking unnecessary chances ever killed anybody I know of.

I'd bet 90 percent of climbers unclip from their bodylines at height at some point during working a spreading decurrent tree. As long as I'm comfortably secure n entwined up there, I don't mind un clipping without a lanyard backup at all,

Keeping multiple lines from becoming inadvertent lowering lines often requires unclipping n sorting lines out.

Gotta admit right foot ascenders make decurrent redirected prune's considerably easier.

Which do you blokes consider more physically demanding, strategic removals, or large fine prunes?

IME it's the latter.

Jemco
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Prunes on REALY big trees if done with some class
 
Jemco said:
The thing I was notorious for as a removal specialist in tight confines?

Taking my my pull rope in either hand, and wearing only gaffs, running up the trunk like a Hawaiian lumberjack, where if yu let go of the rope having kicked out? Down yu go,

Now as an old fella, I use my bigshot n a trunk tie!

The odds are against you displaying young man bravado too long.

But settin a rope in two minutes certainly speeds the process along to its desired resting spot.

Not taking unnecessary chances ever killed anybody I know of.

I'd bet 90 percent of climbers unclip from their bodylines at height at some point during working a spreading decurrent tree. As long as I'm comfortably secure n entwined up there, I don't mind un clipping without a lanyard backup at all,

Keeping multiple lines from becoming inadvertent lowering lines often requires unclipping n sorting lines out.

Gotta admit right foot ascenders make decurrent redirected prune's considerably easier.

Which do you blokes consider more physically demanding, strategic removals, or large fine prunes?

IME it's the latter.

Jemco
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Without any doubt, quality pruning is far more technical than bland removals.
 
SomethingWitty said:
Without any doubt, quality pruning is far more technical than bland removals.
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Generally, yes. I would say quality pruning is more physically demanding

However... I've had some massive removals where the mental decisions, preparations and rigging understanding are way more demanding

I think if you had a green apprentice for a year, you could get them to safely do large prunes well before you could entrust them to a large difficult removal
 
CanadianStan said:
Generally, yes. I would say quality pruning is more physically demanding

However... I've had some massive removals where the mental decisions, preparations and rigging understanding are way more demanding

I think if you had a green apprentice for a year, you could get them to safely do large prunes well before you could entrust them to a large difficult removal
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That's not fair. There is no way that I'm entrusting a 1 year greenhorn to do a prune of any consequence. Actually, I wouldn't let them do a medium intensity removal, either.
Easy (zero or minimal rigging) removals are the easiest thing that we do.



There is no fear of a cut of convenience messing up a removal (besides chopping out your rig point.)
A lazy cut could easily ruin most trees. If they did their time on the ground and showed proficiency with a saw, they might be trusted to handle light removals or prunes that are really basic.
Quality pruning is our market.
 
I have been a removal guy for 40 yrs and can spend 8 hours in the saddle with bigger saws hanging off me and will be just fine the next day...When I do happen to get into a 7-8 hour large prune I am a fucking wreak the next day, and hurt in places I didn't even know I had.....
 
Serf Life said:
Where are all of the badass pruning climbs on youtube? Like crown reductions on huge euro beech on some English manor, or delicate cypress shaping.. It's all removals that pop up for tree work and the "big names" do mostly takedowns.
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It's a lot harder to make that look sexy. I bet I could find a guy to edit a video and make it cool.
 
Well, YouBoob is about keeping things entertaining, and the removals have logs falling and big, honking machinery and dangerous saws whining... keeps the kiddies out of the cookie jar and glued to the big screen TV.

Prunes are definitely more demanding. The tree determines where every cut needs to be, you can't just say, "Bah! This is close enough, I'll whack it here and they can just get a new swingset" like you do on removals.
 
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JeffGu said:
Prunes are definitely more demanding. The tree determines where every cut needs to be, you can't just say, "Bah! This is close enough, I'll whack it here and they can just get a new swingset" like you do on removals.
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How could you have possibly known that I just smashed little Billly's swing-set? ....What strange powers do you possess Mr. Gu?
 
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