should a ground guy wear

Jeff said:
That's really good of you as an employer Jonathan. But can't you just provide everyone their first pair and instruct them that if they damage them they are then responsible to replace them?
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That is not legal. I could try it, I guess it would only be a problem if someone complied about it. I have had one guy destroy three pairs. He is not that good with a saw. But, he is a good worker and a great apple tree pruner. I am working with him on this issue.
 
ROYCE said:
Yeah, I agree I like the pants too. Especially on crane days when your climbing. Very often the climber makes the last cut of the tree when they get to the ground.
Their are laws against making them take financial responsibility for it. Trust me, I looked into it. I wanted to do just what you mentioned. First pairs of chaps are free, second pair I will pay half, third and any thereafter will be deducted from your pay. However, the labor laws prohibit you from docking anyones pay. If they worked their hours they get paid for those hours regardless. Even if you think you can have it in a written contract before they start working, still against he law. I talked with a labor guy about it. I asked him if I can dock their pay for braking stuff. He said no. I asked "then what do I do if they keep destroying stuff" He said fire them!
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I remember some owners on the buzz set up an annual equipment/bonus fund. Let's say $1000 and two year round employees. Nothing lost or broken stupid and the fund gets split at end of year. This is added to the regular annual bonus. This makes a lot of sense when you start sending crews out and boss is not there. I only have one guy year round with me, pull on two more for May thru Dec. The shame is enough on my crew, as no one has damaged or lost anything on purpose.

Pretty sure here in NY you have to provide all required ppe, which included steel/safety toe boots for ground guys. Pretty sure climbers, while climbing don't need chaps or safety shoes.
 
TimBr said:
Royce, thanks for this. It is something I was unaware of before you mentioned it.

Tim
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The concept is that the Chap is not cut proof.

What happens is that very "loose" long fibers inside the covering, are pulled out by the chain teeth, & clog the chain drive.
Then the chain stops.
It is not instantaneous.

If the internal fibers are cut (shortened), or damaged in some other way (bound up by sewing), etc. ................
They may not function as intended.
 
treehumper said:
1910.132(h)(1)Except as provided by paragraphs (h)(2) through (h)(6) of this section, the protective equipment, including personal protective equipment (PPE), used to comply with this part, shall be provided by the employer at no cost to employees.

https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9777

You're responsible to provide it. Given the number of chainsaw accidents in a year (about 32,000 in the US) of which 20% are professionals (6,400) with an average cost of $11,000 for the medical bill, then add into that lost time, lost productivity, increased WC premiums, why wouldn't you:
A) provide them as per OSHA,
B) require them to wear them whether they "like" to or not?

It took a while to train our groundies to don the chaps and this year we went to pants which they wear at all times. Because we don't give them a choice they wear them and don't complain.
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So, this is federal law and applies to every state in the union, then, correct? I just wanted to foot stomp this piece of data. I saw a crew working in my area on a tree prune, and nobody had a hard hat or chaps. Nice enough guys, who come in from the country to do the work, I assume because it pays better near the big city. If I see them again, I'll try to tactfully bring this subject up to the crew chief.

Thanks for your post.

Tim
 
ROYCE said:
That is not legal. I could try it, I guess it would only be a problem if someone complied about it. I have had one guy destroy three pairs. He is not that good with a saw. But, he is a good worker and a great apple tree pruner. I am working with him on this issue.
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Treehumper put up the OSHA rules. Here is a subtle difference between losing or misusing ppe and being asked to compensate the company and the company's categorical responsibility to provide it. I quote from the OSHA page:

"1910.132(h)(5)The employer must pay for replacement PPE, except when the employee has lost or intentionally damaged the PPE."

The company must always provide the equipment, but like with the misuse or loss of small tools, the employee may be asked to compensate.
 
TimBr said:
So, this is federal law and applies to every state in the union, then, correct? I just wanted to foot stomp this piece of data. I saw a crew working in my area on a tree prune, and nobody had a hard hat or chaps. Nice enough guys, who come in from the country to do the work, I assume because it pays better near the big city. If I see them again, I'll try to tactfully bring this subject up to the crew chief.

Thanks for your post.

Tim
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It is federal law, however in states that have their own version of OSHA such as California, the state version must meet or exceed the federal OSHA. As far as bringing this up to the "country" boys, be careful. You might get the "Deliverance" treatment.
 
oldoakman said:
It is federal law, however in states that have their own version of OSHA such as California, the state version must meet or exceed the federal OSHA. As far as bringing this up to the "country" boys, be careful. You might get the "Deliverance" treatment.
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I should have seen this one coming down main street. No offense was intended to those folks who grew up in the country. I guess my only reason for mentioning where they were from was to try to explain why their safety standards might be different. I just have the impression that the further you go away from the big governmental organizations, the easier it might be to live by your own rules. Again, no offense intended.

No banjoes were harmed during the pruning of this tree, and no blind children were present. These guys weren't from that far back into the woods.

The climber was an interesting dude, in his early 60's, and using a pair of custom made double handled ascenders, one for his hands, one for his feet (which had a step/foot strap hanging off the bottom) in order to climb a pair of stationary ropes that were hanging side by side. A Stihl 201T was his weapon of choice.

Tim
 
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Jeff said:
"Squeal like a pig for me, city boy!"
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You must have me confused with Ned Beatty. I think I heard an interview with the character actor who played the role of the rapist. He said that at the time, nobody wanted the part, because of its content. He wasn't scared, and took the role, which turned out to be about the most famous thing he ever did in movies. He joked that because of his fame in relation to that part, he had a website called "whydontyoujustdropthempants.com".

At least, I think he was kidding.

Tim
 
No offense taken Tim, and you are probably right since I are a country boy and it took some time for the osha rules to trickle down where I was living. Farmers are very resourceful people. I was just concerned that they may take you the wrong way. I have since turned over another leaf and am almost anal about PPE and safe work areas. I just met one of our new crew members yesterday and told him that I will get in his face if I see something he is doing that is unsafe. I also told him that it is in no way personal, but that my goal was to be sure he went home to his family every night.
 
oldoakman said:
No offense taken Tim, and you are probably right since I are a country boy and it took some time for the osha rules to trickle down where I was living. Farmers are very resourceful people. I was just concerned that they may take you the wrong way. I have since turned over another leaf and am almost anal about PPE and safe work areas. I just met one of our new crew members yesterday and told him that I will get in his face if I see something he is doing that is unsafe. I also told him that it is in no way personal, but that my goal was to be sure he went home to his family every night.
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You're a good man, oldoakman; that is how it should be, and the new guy is lucky to be working with you.

Tim
 
ROYCE said:
I have replaced 5 pairs of chaps in the last year from small cuts. I would much rather replace the chaps than the alternative. BUT, it is a little frustrating. I as the employer have to supply these for my guys.
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Damn Royce your guys hit their legs with the saw that much? Maybe you need to replace them.:tonto:
 
Nobody at my company wears chaps. We have a pair of Stihls in the truck. I tried to get myself into the habit of wearing them (more so for preserving my pants rather than legs), they're just uncomfortable after awhile-especially when it's hot. How do saw pants compare to chaps? Are they comfortable in your saddle? Are they really warm?
 
TimBr said:
The climber was using a pair of custom made double handled ascenders, one for his hands, one for his feet (which had a step/foot strap hanging off the bottom) in order to climb a pair of stationary ropes that were hanging side by side.
Tim
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Was he using a Mar-Bar? You might not have seen these before Tim. Popular back in late '90s and 2000 but now out of production.
image.webp

And like OldOak said, I don't think anyone took offense at your country comment. I sure wouldn't have brought up the squeal if I thought you actually insulting anyone on here. (Yes, I grew up in the country also.)
 
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