Secondary tie-in for spurring: choked split-tail climbing line -OR- running bowline -OR- ??

LordFarkwad said:
Are you are saying that, because mechanical descenders often bend the rope to achieve the goal of arresting descent, they work with a narrower selection of rope diameters than devices that preform the same function but do it while keeping the rope straight, as in a multicender?
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Yes, that is partly what i was after. The bend in the rope made by typical mechanical descenders means you cant use a foot ascender or other aids below your device in order to "stand up" on the rope in order to advance upwards. If you are spiking up a tree on spurs, this does not affect your climbing style. If you want to be able to climb up the rope using a descender like a petzl rig or ISC ID, you will need some other gear to go above it in order to progress upwards.
 
LordFarkwad said:
I kind of hate the idea of asking someone in the business locally to help me out, being that they might think that they're training their replacement, someone who will take business away, etc., etc.
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I'll bet whoever is running that business didn't just buy tools and gear then wing it. Everyone starts somewhere.

You probably won't feel so bad after you see your first paycheck ;)

There's no substitute for real 1 on 1 training. You can likely expect to be stuck on the ground for a while. Good time to hone those chainsaw skills. It's incredibly important to be proficient with a saw on the ground and understand hinges, lean, kickback, etc before you try running one off the ground.
 
Holy crap...went out and was trying to get my sea legs with the spurs between rain showers. Didn't go over 10' off the ground. It was educational...

I'm going to be on the ground for a while. Finally got them adjusted to what I hope is the correct length. But they roll on my leg like crazy (see attached picture). Not sure how to fix that exactly. Had them tight as crap.

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Not sure what the deal with that is. I'm going to have to practice this. I was on a pine about 10" in diameter. Too much of an angle and I couldn't pull myself toward the trunk with enough vigor to move my pull line up, so I dialed that in a little bit over a couple trips up/down the tree. When I pulled myself in too close to the tree while advancing the flip line one time, I guess my angle became too shallow for a second, and a gaff came out.

I wasn't wearing gloves this time (just a quick trip out to try harness, flipline, and spurs out), so that hurt things too, and I can definitely see how a larger diameter flip line would help grip.

Freaking Weaver saddle has a warning tag hanging on one of the D-rings saying to only use locking snaps. What the heck? Not carabiners? That's what came on my flipline (an ISC carabiner).

Also, I tried a 3-strand buck strap with steel snaps, as a secondary; will have to get used to advancing this, working with it, etc., due to nearly releasing the tension on it several times by placing my hand on the Prusik. Not sure if I'll continue to use this or what.

Anyway, just wanted to post an update. It was interesting getting out there.
 
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Screw buckstraps man, you want infinite adjustability at your hip. If it's a rope buckstrap you can turn it into a normal flipline if you can undo that hitch on it. Or cut the hitch off. Then pick an adjuster.

Any rigid pad out there is better than those "L" or "T" pads.
 
LordFarkwad said:
I kind of hate the idea of asking someone in the business locally to help me out, being that they might think that they're training their replacement, someone who will take business away, etc., etc.

It strikes me kind of like looking over a mechanic's shoulder, asking him how to fix stuff.

Is this not the case? I mean, you certainly seemed to have a different attitude about the guy who helped you out, but is that the way most feel about it?
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LordFarkwad said:
Holy crap...went out and was trying to get my sea legs work the spurs between rain showers. Didn't go over 10' off the ground. It was educational...

I'm going to be on the ground for a while. Finally got them adjusted to what I hope is the correct length. But they roll on my leg like crazy (see attached picture). Not sure how to fix that exactly. Had them tight as crap.

vlSQwqw.jpg


8DaQVLg.jpg


Not sure what the deal with that is. I'm going to have to practice this. I was on a pine about 10" in diameter. Too much of an angle and I couldn't pull myself toward the trunk with enough vigor to move my pull line up, so I dialed that in a little bit over a couple trips up/down the tree. When I pulled myself in too close to the tree while advancing the flip line one time, I guess my angle became too shallow for a second, and a gaff came out.

I wasn't wearing gloves this time (just a quick trip out to try harness, flipline, and spurs out), so that hurt things too, and I can definitely see how a larger diameter flip line would help grip.

Freaking Weaver saddle has a warning tag hanging on one of the D-rings saying to only use locking snaps. What the heck? Not carabiners? That's what came on my flipline (an ISC carabiner).

Also, I tried a 3-strand buck strap with steel snaps, as a secondary; will have to get used to advancing this, working with it, etc., due to nearly releasing the tension on it several times by placing my hand on the Prusik. Not sure if I'll continue to use this or what.

Anyway, just wanted to post an update. It was interesting getting out there.
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Looks like you bought spur pads that don't have steel inserts... or something like that.. The stirrups slide into the pads with the steel inserts & form a solid connection. Personally I've never known anyone who uses pads without them..

As far as the tag regarding your d rings? You better return those biners.. $100,000 fine if you get caught using them.. & do not by any means rip that tag off!! Automatic prison time.!

For real though, you should take the advice here & catch up with a local business & ask them for some help or employment. Seeing this stuff in person is completely different than trying to comprehend something you don't understand on the internet or YouTube..

& No. It's not like looking over a mechanics shoulder.. nor will they be concerned about losing business due to a new guy on the block... trust me...

Get your spurs straightened out, get your eyes on someone with experience & you'll feel alot more confident.. I will be honest though.. it is a very physical & tuff art. The shit hurts, when tree guys build their business & say there poured their blood sweat & tears into it, you can take that literally.
 
I'ma have to see how it's made.... Would be awesome to be able to convert that strap to an adjustable. It's short as heck too. If nothing else, maybe I could use the two snaps from this one and just make my own out of some 1/2" Pro-Master (?). Maybe u could even make a 2-in-1

I now have understanding on the rigid pad. Need to look for some. They might have had some steel Buckinghams at the place I got these from.
 
Is this something your trying to make $$ doing or a tree removal favor for a relative or friend your trying to help out.

Can i ask a question?
How much trigger time do you have with a saw? (I'm assuming the whole purpose of this exercise is to remove tree's, right?) I ask as you have to have those skills honed before you can expect to do it aloft or things can get quite dangerous. Yeah, an individual can have a lucky steak, but if those skills aren't honed, eventually you'll get bit.. by the wood or the saw, especially in compact quarters with shit swinging all around you.. Wood does some weird stuff if you don't know how to read it right.. & not a single peice is identical.. I can remember before i had any time in the trade, i was a landscaper, I thought I knew how to run a saw because naturally they get used here & there & i owned one... but boy was I wrong.. I was a complete novice, not even a knowledgable weekend warrior at best. If i had chosen to start climbing right then & there, before being in the trade running a saw on the daily, I'd definatley would have gotten hurt. Learning how to climb & learning how to run a saw at the same time = bad juju.

But that's just my opinion..
 
I've been cutting firewood for 25yrs, and clearing land intermittently for family and friends, and have always really enjoyed it. I'd like to generate some side cash with this, for sure, but I also enjoy the experience and exercise, itself (hunting, splitting, felling, etc.). I'm definitely not taking a saw into a tree tomorrow or next month even, until I am much more confident with climbing and using ropes in general. I'm not on a timeline for any of this stuff.
 
Just a heads up, practice spurring on that pine is gonna get messy fast. All those little wounds are gonna bleed pitch. Very tacky stuff, sucks if it gets on ropes and hitches.
 
LordFarkwad said:
I've been cutting firewood for 25yrs, and clearing land intermittently for family and friends, and have always really enjoyed it. I'd like to generate some side cash with this, for sure, but I also enjoy the experience and exercise, itself (hunting, splitting, felling, etc.). I'm definitely not taking a saw into a tree tomorrow or next month even, until I am much more confident with climbing and using ropes in general. I'm not on a timeline for any of this stuff.
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Ahhh.. i gotchya.. so your employed or have a trade already..? So is working for a tree service out of the question then?
 
LordFarkwad said:
I saw the stirrup idea a while back but forgot to try it out. What's it do?

Thanks allot, south.
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I think he was trying to say, even though the pads suck, try a 360 wrap & it may make them more secure..

Is it an an actual buck strap style lanyard, kinda like a prucell prusik?

What's wrong with that orange flipline i saw earlier..?

All these things are pretty tit to make by hand. Look into "Diy lanyards" on here.. "slack tenders".. etc.. you'll see a thousand examples of how to achieve secondary tie-ins, positioning lanyards, etc.. couple key words "DEDA", "2-1".. don't get hung up on the terminology as their all just rope in the end & everyone has a different interpitation. There's this guy on YouTube who goes nuts with his hardware & tie - ins but has some decent examples of gear & how their used. Daigentanoen is his channel. The guy has every climbing tool known to man. He also modifys them.
 
Jimmycrackcorn said:
I think he was trying to say, even though the pads suck, try a 360 wrap & it may make them more secure..

Is it an an actual buck strap style lanyard, kinda like a prucell prusik?

What's wrong with that orange flipline i saw earlier..?

All these things are pretty tit to make by hand. Look into "Diy lanyards" on here.. "slack tenders".. etc.. you'll see a thousand examples of how to achieve secondary tie-ins, positioning lanyards, etc.. couple key words "DEDA", "2-1".. don't get hung up on the terminology as their all just rope in the end & everyone has a different interpitation. There's this guy on YouTube who goes nuts with his hardware & tie - ins but has some decent examples of gear & how their used. Daigentanoen is his channel. The guy has every climbing tool known to man. He also modifys them.
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The flipline is great! That's my primary. I just wanted a backup lanyard so I'm always tied in at least twice, and was trying a simple buckstrap style one initially... It does indeed suck. It is a single piece of rope with a splice and snap on one end, and wrapped through a snap on the other end, then ends in a Prusik on itself. Eesh.

Thanks for the pointers on the DIY lanyard. I've been looking at using some 1/2" Pro-Master I've got allot of (been using it for helping some trees come over from the ground), along with the snaps from the buckstrap, a small CMI pulley, to make something like this, at least in the sense that it is made of 1/2" 3-strand...

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I'd add a small pulley for slack tending.

Only potential issue I see is that these above have rings spliced into the ends, where I'd be okay with doing all this with knots, but would that create to much of a bend in the ropes where they terminate at the snaps/carabiners??
 
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If the rope has been used for rigging, then it shouldn’t be used as a climb line. New rigging ropes can be used, although not the best option.

I just tried using the HH2, with the 9mm RIT cord that comes with it, on True Blue. I didn’t have any succcess with that combination, or with Regatta Braid, that usually acts like Velcro, as far as grabbing. Looking at the rope it turns into a rectangle in cross section when put under load. This might be why the hitches wouldn’t hold. Maybe the dogbone and carabiner also contribute to form the rectangular shape.
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