Secondary tie-in for spurring: choked split-tail climbing line -OR- running bowline -OR- ??

You just bought a great rigging line. Everyone is gonna recommend yale 11.7 or the newer kernmantle type ropes for climbing. Its still plenty useable but wont interface as well and you will notice quite a bit of stretch
 
Have I screwed myself by getting 200' of 1/2" True Blue? I'm looking at descenders and they all like they are for smaller than 1/2" rope. It appears that 1/2" limits my options, at least where descenders and rappel devices are concerned :(. And it's at the upper end of the Hitchhiker's capacity.

The HH2 will work fine with 1/2" line. As a matter of fact, 12.7 Samson Vortex is one of my favorites with it.
 
Dang it. I'd have gotten other stuff just for device compatibility alone if I'd looked up that info beforehand. Doookie.


Before you buy anything use the search feature here. Bit of a rabbit hole but almost every question you have had has been covered muliple times. Just so happens things are slowing down for some of us so we have time to help ya
 
Well, u cant have enough rope...
HH will still work with your line you have, but if you decide you need something more usable with the fancy stuff, someone on here would buy it off you.
Most mechanical descenders function by bending and camming the rope, leaving limited options for ascending, rather than applying friction to a straight line, which gives lots of options. This is more of a rope ascending concern, though.
 
Before you buy anything use the search feature here. Bit of a rabbit hole but almost every question you have had has been covered muliple times. Just so happens things are slowing down for some of us so we have time to help ya

I really appreciate the help. Part of my issue is that I'm still learning terminology, acronyms, abbreviations, colloquialisms, etc., so when I find something via search, sometimes I'm not sure if it applies or not :|
 
Yea get a different rope and keep that for rigging. Start a thread on what rope with hitch hiker and explain what gear you want to use with it and you’ll get the answers you want
 
Most mechanical descenders function by bending and camming the rope, leaving limited options for ascending, rather than applying friction to a straight line, which gives lots of options. This is more of a rope ascending concern, though.

Are you are saying that, because mechanical descenders often bend the rope to achieve the goal of arresting descent, they work with a narrower selection of rope diameters than devices that preform the same function but do it while keeping the rope straight, as in a multicender?
 
I finish the tie off with I believe it’s called a barrel knot where the tale comes out. I’m all for the debate but that video doesn’t do that knot justice

Yep, double overhand or barrel is great to finish a Yosemite.

Richard made the video after a good friend had a fairly bad fall using a Bowline/Yosemite carabiner attachment, they accidentally clipped into the leg of the Yosemite and went down fast. The climber recovered fully.
-AJ
 
So, say - as a first stab at this - I hang onto the 1/2" true blue and use it with an HH2 (meaning that my climbing line and friction hitch are both 1/2" TB). Any obvious issues with this?

One question I'm having is, since I'm not using high-heat-resistant hitch cord, is this thing going to come apart during a fast emergency descent?
 
No the HH2 comes with the right diameter hitch cord, and it comes with instructions of a really good hitch to use with it. You can make a split tail out of a few feet of that true blue, but that won't work on a single line like that. I think hitch cord for HH2 is gonna be around 10mm max, True Blue is closer to 13mm. The HH2 will take some heat/ friction on the device and some on the hitch. It's pretty gentle on the rope, but I haven't really tried glazing it.

Maybe don't go cut a piece off your new rope just yet.

Alot of what you're being told will make alot more sense after you experiment a little, preferably between 0 and 2 feet off the ground.

I think once you stand on spurs on one of your conifers, you'll abandon the idea of advancing a choked line as a method of climbing with spurs. Choked line definitely has it's place for when you want a quick bailout or as regular srt climbing line and even a lanyard configuration. But for spurring up a conifer, nothing is faster than a lanyard from one hip D to the other, with a second lanyard (which can be climbing line with split tail) for passing obstacles and use BOTH when running a saw, always.
At least that's my experience with spur climbing conifers.

I also don't want to discourage you from keeping a 3rd safety of some sort, so by all mean, choke away. Just know that a hitch alone on a single stationary rope will just bind up, and if you do get it to slide some, it might heat up alot.

What I do isn't always the best way. You may have noticed in my 2 lanyard setup I described I don't have an immediate bailout. That'll take 20 seconds or so to choke my climbing line and munter down.
 
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So, say - as a first stab at this - I hang onto the 1/2" true blue and use it with an HH2 (meaning that my climbing line and friction hitch are both 1/2" TB). Any obvious issues with this?

One question I'm having is, since I'm not using high-heat-resistant hitch cord, is this thing going to come apart during a fast emergency descent?

It sounds like you might benefit from catching up with someone local that can cover your questions in person hands on. Not that buzz is a bad place, but you will chase 7 conversations 4 different directions. If you can find someone, a couple hours can get you set up very quickly with a basic and even advanced understanding of the equipment and techniques. We had a gentleman come up and spend a couple hours on a Sunday and watched us work all day Monday, even helped out a bit. Left with a much better understanding of what he needed, and the direction he needed to go.
 
It sounds like you might benefit from catching up with someone local that can cover your questions in person hands on. Not that buzz is a bad place, but you will chase 7 conversations 4 different directions. If you can find someone, a couple hours can get you set up very quickly with a basic and even advanced understanding of the equipment and techniques. We had a gentleman come up and spend a couple hours on a Sunday and watched us work all day Monday, even helped out a bit. Left with a much better understanding of what he needed, and the direction he needed to go.
What he said!
 
I kind of hate the idea of asking someone in the business locally to help me out, being that they might think that they're training their replacement, someone who will take business away, etc., etc.

It strikes me kind of like looking over a mechanic's shoulder, asking him how to fix stuff.

Is this not the case? I mean, you certainly seemed to have a different attitude about the guy who helped you out, but is that the way most feel about it?
 
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I learned how to climb on a singing tree rope runner and SRT. I learned a few of knots, bought a big shot and throwline and practiced with a base tie at about 10-15 feet til I got comfortable. Then I went higher. I very much learned on the job, which probably wasn’t the smartest way, I was removing a decent sized maple on my 4th or 5th climb ever. I came from working as a contracted timber cutter full time for 3 years so I did have saw experience. I did 3-4 removals and several trim jobs before I ever owned a set of spurs, which made trusting my spurs difficult for a long time. I would learn to trust those spurs low and slow first, I did not take the time to do this and learned spurs while working. I much prefer Single rope over double rope. 90% of my climbing is done with single rope. I’ve always used mechanical multicenders and never hitches. I have a larger arsenal now days with a few options, I’d like to add a hitch climber and start climbing on hitches, but it’s just something I never learned in the beginning. Mechanicals you have to watch side loading on limbs, getting a twig jammed into them, etc, so that’s something to consider when looking at them over hitches. If I climbed pine a like, pitch and how a device reacted to sap and pitch would be a large deciding factor.
I had a steel core and rope lanyard when I first started, and I climbed with both, and a primary tie in. Now I only climb with 1 rope lanyard and my primary. I don’t like steel core, because you can’t inspect them, and I just prefer the feel of rope. For a tie in knot, I use a bowline with a stopper, or more often, I use an alpine butterfly with the tail and working line on the ground so that it is retrievable from the ground. You can either use a pinto pulley to connect them without sideloading a biner, a quickie, 2 steel carabiners, or feed the working end of your line down through your knot and have no hardware, and still have a ground retrievable tie in. If I’m working a spar or conifer where I’m cutting as I climb, I just cinch a running bowline on the spar and lanyard and spur up the tree, or climb with my zigzag around the stem. With the zigzag around the stem, you do not have a fast bail out method unless you use a limb as a natural crotch.
That went on for a while and hopefully you can make sense of some of my gibberish. I certainly don’t do everything right and I’m learning as I go but that’s the way I got started and so far I have never had a real “ohshit” moment.
Biggest thing is inspect whatever you buy, inspect it like your life depends on it. Because it does
 
I learned how to climb on a singing tree rope runner and SRT. I learned a few of knots, bought a big shot and throwline and practiced with a base tie at about 10-15 feet til I got comfortable. Then I went higher. I very much learned on the job, which probably wasn’t the smartest way, I was removing a decent sized maple on my 4th or 5th climb ever. I came from working as a contracted timber cutter full time for 3 years so I did have saw experience. I did 3-4 removals and several trim jobs before I ever owned a set of spurs, which made trusting my spurs difficult for a long time. I would learn to trust those spurs low and slow first, I did not take the time to do this and learned spurs while working. I much prefer Single rope over double rope. 90% of my climbing is done with single rope. I’ve always used mechanical multicenders and never hitches. I have a larger arsenal now days with a few options, I’d like to add a hitch climber and start climbing on hitches, but it’s just something I never learned in the beginning. Mechanicals you have to watch side loading on limbs, getting a twig jammed into them, etc, so that’s something to consider when looking at them over hitches. If I climbed pine a like, pitch and how a device reacted to sap and pitch would be a large deciding factor.
I had a steel core and rope lanyard when I first started, and I climbed with both, and a primary tie in. Now I only climb with 1 rope lanyard and my primary. I don’t like steel core, because you can’t inspect them, and I just prefer the feel of rope. For a tie in knot, I use a bowline with a stopper, or more often, I use an alpine butterfly with the tail and working line on the ground so that it is retrievable from the ground. You can either use a pinto pulley to connect them without sideloading a biner, a quickie, 2 steel carabiners, or feed the working end of your line down through your knot and have no hardware, and still have a ground retrievable tie in. If I’m working a spar or conifer where I’m cutting as I climb, I just cinch a running bowline on the spar and lanyard and spur up the tree, or climb with my zigzag around the stem. With the zigzag around the stem, you do not have a fast bail out method unless you use a limb as a natural crotch.
That went on for a while and hopefully you can make sense of some of my gibberish. I certainly don’t do everything right and I’m learning as I go but that’s the way I got started and so far I have never had a real “ohshit” moment.
Biggest thing is inspect whatever you buy, inspect it like your life depends on it. Because it does

Use a friction saver like
https://www.treestuff.com/store/catalog.asp?category_id=350&item=5701 to tie in to & advance it as needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
So, say - as a first stab at this - I hang onto the 1/2" true blue and use it with an HH2 (meaning that my climbing line and friction hitch are both 1/2" TB). Any obvious issues with this?

One question I'm having is, since I'm not using high-heat-resistant hitch cord, is this thing going to come apart during a fast emergency descent?

Just a heads up, there's no such thing as a "fast emergency descent" in tree climbing, at least one that is safe. Descent speed is governed by (in a hitch scenario) by the melting point of your hitch cordage cover or braid with Ice Tail or Tenex, and to a certain extent your climbing rope. In an emergency (name your scenario) you actually want to be trying to remain calm and in control while on rope, you don't want to let it rip, you could lose control and end up in an even worse situation, maintain even descent speed. For example say you failed to detect a wasp nest during your pre-climb tree assessment, or failed to detect it during initial ascent. There is no way you can outrun wasps on rope. It's not intuitive but remaining still is the best defense against wasps when they start becoming active in your proximity, if you are swarmed and they start stinging initiate descent, fast movements provoke them more. Tough situation, no easy remedy, speed on descent is not one of them.

Flying Squirrel nailed it. Beyond that here's a point where you need to start climbing low and slow on a clean and simple system to fully grasp the concepts. Climbing isn't actually about the gear, it's about learning how to be in a tree safely and effectively. I always recommend putting in a bunch of hours on rope before actually attempting to do tree work. Every new climber, especially self-taught ends up with a pile of useless gear because they tried to understand everything without actual experience. Been there done that. Climbing technique and gear has many common (to all climbers) aspects, and then there's what works for you in reality, which you haven't discovered yet.
-AJ
 
So, say - as a first stab at this - I hang onto the 1/2" true blue and use it with an HH2 (meaning that my climbing line and friction hitch are both 1/2" TB). Any obvious issues with this?

One question I'm having is, since I'm not using high-heat-resistant hitch cord, is this thing going to come apart during a fast emergency descent?

To answer directly, if you say pulled down fully on the hitch and forgot to put a brake hand on the tail of the rope, parts of the hitch that most fully engage the rope (if the hitch cord is all polyester) will hit melting point within 10 ft. or less of initiating this type of uncontrolled descent. Ask me how I know ;-) It will take longer to go all the way through the hitch but not much longer. If the hitch doesn't fail you'll still hit the ground very hard if you don't take your hand off the hitch.

If your hitch cord has a blended polyester/heat resistant fiber cover you'll leave what infamous internet jester Nick Araya calls "fun stripes" in your main climbing rope, long stripes of melted polyester on the surface. Effective way to wreck a rope.
-AJ
 
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Best case scenario, if I was advising you from the beginning I'd say pick up a double braid like a Yale 11.7mm (Poison Ivy or equivalent). All you need for a climbing system is a Blake's Hitch and a couple carabiners. Sleeve type cambium savers (Dan House Sleeve) are very easy to install and remove remotely and are effective. Make a foot prusik to get your leg power in the game. Get some hours in going up and down. From that point start looking at split-tails and a mechanical foot ascender, get some hours in on that. Now you'll have a better idea of what you might like in a multicender and conversion to "single rope" climbing methods. None of the previous gear you acquired will be obsolete. I climb on a Rope Wrench or Rope Runner 90% of the time, but... I highly recommend a progressive approach before fully gearing up your dream system. As mentioned earlier, it's your tree climbing smarts that need the most development, not your gear.
-AJ
 
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