SCAM 3:1 MA and Remotely Retrievable Redirect

SomethingWitty said:
Just have to ask, have you played with a quickie?
Anything that cinches is hard to make side load because of the taper on the curved piece, and the pin both rotates and has those nice corners to hold your bight in place. I think the quickie might have found another calling. I'll try your nifty new trick out with a runner and my wrench with a HC pulley.
I think a carabinier in the middle hole of the HC may be the solution to the cluttered wrench binier. I never switched to the fancy pulleys that don't have extra holes. A pinto could use the becket, I guess.
Click to expand...
The bight with biner works great on the dmmhitch climber, but the wrench must come off. The quickie worked flawlessly the one time I scammed it so far. The bights just spilled right off the redi-branch.
 
SomethingWitty said:
Just have to ask, have you played with a quickie?
Anything that cinches is hard to make side load because of the taper on the curved piece, and the pin both rotates and has those nice corners to hold your bight in place. I think the quickie might have found another calling. I'll try your nifty new trick out with a runner and my wrench with a HC pulley.
I think a carabinier in the middle hole of the HC may be the solution to the cluttered wrench binier. I never switched to the fancy pulleys that don't have extra holes. A pinto could use the becket, I guess.
Click to expand...

I have used removable pin shackles outside of tree work quite a bit, but have not gotten to play with the quickie yet. It looks like it would work just fine, like I said above it takes a lot of unloaded violent shaking to get a carabiner to rotate in the SCAM knot, so I would expect the quickie to be the same way. There would likely be some friction increase from the rotating pin compared to a pulley, but still better than a carabiner.
 
I'm really enjoying this as a redirect. The one difficulty I have with dragging a bight with me is it is just that, a drag. I have been playing with ways to decrease the friction. Here is one idea I had.
I know you said not to use a revolver;), but...
Now I only have a wire gate revolver, but if you have a hydra on your bridge you can run the bight on the little pulley and it makes a huge difference. I was running the rope through both the carabiner and the revolver to add the security, but I really like separating the bight from running against the multiscender. So I might have to get a locking revolver if it will fit in the hydra. I used a xsre mini carabiner to tighten up the tending while advancing up the line. It worked pretty well, but I feel like it is getting away from being as simple as 'a single carabiner'...
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PS. This was a really ugly pin oak tree that the client only was interested in having reduction pruning on a few upper branches that were over the neighbors property...they took care of the lower limbs earlier.
 
John_KAYS said:
I'm really enjoying this as a redirect. The one difficulty I have with dragging a bight with me is it is just that, a drag. I have been playing with ways to decrease the friction. Here is one idea I had.
I know you said not to use a revolver;), but...
Now I only have a wire gate revolver, but if you have a hydra on your bridge you can run the bight on the little pulley and it makes a huge difference. I was running the rope through both the carabiner and the revolver to add the security, but I really like separating the bight from running against the multiscender. So I might have to get a locking revolver if it will fit in the hydra. I used a xsre mini carabiner to tighten up the tending while advancing up the line. It worked pretty well, but I feel like it is getting away from being as simple as 'a single carabiner'...
View attachment 47945
View attachment 47944

View attachment 47943

PS. This was a really ugly pin oak tree that the client only was interested in having reduction pruning on a few upper branches that were over the neighbors property...they took care of the lower limbs earlier.
Click to expand...
Here is a quick video of it working.
 
Yeah, just tried this same thing in a big cedar in my back yard. Two Petzl Z Roller Biners, one on top, and one on bottom in the third hole of a Paw on my bridge. BDB in opposite outside hole on the paw, to keep the bight away from the Bone. Just got those Z Rollers the other day, love them! But man it is dangerous to walk into WesSpur with a VISA card. All those goodies! Say, what are we going to call a twin-biner SCAM? I can't think of anything. And SCAM sounded pretty cool. cheers, Stew
 
John_KAYS said:
Here is a quick video of it working.
Click to expand...

Wow, this is really cool to see it in action with the bone!

I like the lower pulley, I tried it with adding a micro pulley onto my primary biner and it was really smooth but a little slower disconnecting, I didn't like the way it clanged around on my multicender, and you know how I am about dropping things :whistle:.

At first I thought you putting the bight on another hole in the hydra would mess up the tending but as long as you pull from below it seems fine.

I like the little biner to keep things lined up nice, the shackle on the pre-production Akimbo is oriented horizontally so it might not work as well. I am going to give the revolver another shot in this configuration and see how it does.

Great testing, and thanks for filming it!
 
Burrapeg said:
Yeah, just tried this same thing in a big cedar in my back yard. Two Petzl Z Roller Biners, one on top, and one on bottom in the third hole of a Paw on my bridge. BDB in opposite outside hole on the paw, to keep the bight away from the Bone. Just got those Z Rollers the other day, love them! But man it is dangerous to walk into WesSpur with a VISA card. All those goodies! Say, what are we going to call a twin-biner SCAM? I can't think of anything. And SCAM sounded pretty cool. cheers, Stew
Click to expand...

I am so glad there is no arborist supply near me or I would go broke, and the folks at REI just put their nose in the air when I mention tree climbing :endesacuerdo:

Dual Z's! That is a crazy cool setup, but it does blow my acronym away... unless that configuration becomes the
Sheave Carabiner Access Method :bailando:
 
FreeFallin said:
I am so glad there is no arborist supply near me or I would go broke, and the folks at REI just put their nose in the air when I mention tree climbing :endesacuerdo:

Dual Z's! That is a crazy cool setup, but it does blow my acronym away... unless that configuration becomes the
Sheave Carabiner Access Method :bailando:
Click to expand...
That works for me! SCAM is simply too cool an acronym to lose. Wasn't there some old song about Bringing in the Sheaves?

- Stew
 
Freddie Fisher said:
As a non American I can't help but chuckle at the need for an acronym when naming just about anything!
Click to expand...
Yeah, kinda weird. The Brits are into that pretty heavily too, especially the government and military. I live Stateside but my family is from Lincolnshire. I was a student volunteer with an archaeological team in London for a while in the early 70's and finally got promoted to Archeaological Survey Supervisor.
 
What I like the most about the scam is the single and retrievable carabiner use. With an easy on-and-off-the-rope tool like the Akimbo or BDB, it works better for me to run with the tool on the static leg of the bight, like a more typical haul-back system. This makes it very smooth and easy to tend with no extra carabiners. However, it does require removal of the tool from the line for retrieving the carabiner, but since you need to lanyard in anyway and you can't drop either tool by just removing the rope, this works for me.
 
DSMc said:
What I like the most about the scam is the single and retrievable carabiner use. With an easy on-and-off-the-rope tool like the Akimbo or BDB, it works better for me to run with the tool on the static leg of the bight, like a more typical haul-back system. This makes it very smooth and easy to tend with no extra carabiners. However, it does require removal of the tool from the line for retrieving the carabiner, but since you need to lanyard in anyway and you can't drop either tool by just removing the rope, this works for me.
Click to expand...

Interesting, so are you saying that you essentially setup a SCAM, and then transfer your multicender onto the bight you pulled through, and then transfer it back to the tail leg to release the SCAM?

I am assuming you clip your tail into an auxiliary carabiner somewhere so you don't lose it.
 
No, I set the RollClip Z on the line as you show but with just one leg of the bight through the carabiner all while leaving my Akimbo on the line. I then take the tail from under the Akimbo and also pass it through the carabiner to form the bight. The Akimbo only has to be removed when the time comes for retrieving the carabiner. It is very smooth and simple.

Yes, if working at any angle, you must not lose the rope tail.
 
DSMc said:
No, I set the RollClip Z on the line as you show but with just one leg of the bight through the carabiner all while leaving my Akimbo on the line. I then take the tail from under the Akimbo and also pass it through the carabiner to form the bight. The Akimbo only has to be removed when the time comes for retrieving the carabiner. It is very smooth and simple.

Yes, if working at any angle, you must not lose the rope tail.
Click to expand...

Ah, I see now, my brain took a different road to the same destination.

So that is kind of a hybred approach where your progress capture device (multicender in this case) is moved to the middle of the MA system as opposed to the end where I have it.

I tested this early on, but that was before I had the SCAM knot and when I was still using a solid ring. I still like having the tail captured in the system, and not having to disconnect the Akimbo to release the bight, but I need to go back and play around with this again, there would be gains in reduced friction.

This is good stuff!
 
John_KAYS said:
I'm really enjoying this as a redirect. The one difficulty I have with dragging a bight with me is it is just that, a drag. I have been playing with ways to decrease the friction. Here is one idea I had.
I know you said not to use a revolver;), but...
Now I only have a wire gate revolver, but if you have a hydra on your bridge you can run the bight on the little pulley and it makes a huge difference. I was running the rope through both the carabiner and the revolver to add the security, but I really like separating the bight from running against the multiscender. So I might have to get a locking revolver if it will fit in the hydra. I used a xsre mini carabiner to tighten up the tending while advancing up the line. It worked pretty well, but I feel like it is getting away from being as simple as 'a single carabiner'...
View attachment 47945
View attachment 47944

View attachment 47943

PS. This was a really ugly pin oak tree that the client only was interested in having reduction pruning on a few upper branches that were over the neighbors property...they took care of the lower limbs earlier.
Click to expand...
yup a pulley on the bight attached to you bridge help tremendously. when i was dry crotching it helped keep things moving smooth!
 
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