safety question about working off an srt system

Safety is an "attitude".
One can say all they want about a system. If it is proven to be safe, efficient, energy saving and faster, why not use it?
I have a very good friend who cut himself out of a tree, with a handsaw, while on a doubled rope system. He's alive, but in a wheelchair probably for the rest of his life.
 
Re: safety question about working off an srt syste

I hope people are not misunderstanding my comments. I'm not trying to take away anybody's right to climb SRT. I'm not trying to say I don't use SRT. I'm not trying to say you shouldn't either. I'm just sayin'....sometimes, like in Doug firs (and I live in an area with tons of these trees), you've got to be damned careful when working off the SRT system and I don't think its safe in a lot of circumstances. That tensioned back leg of the single rope is a real problem. People will disagree about the threshold of safety. I'm very interested in trying out the Unicender and RopeWrench and exploring other SRT setups, and I will do so open-mindedly and also critically.

If there was one real nugget in all of this thread it was the recognition that not only do we not now have (at least, I don't know of) a reliable retrievable anchor system for the srt that would work as well, say, as a friction saver for the Ddrt, but that there is a felt need for such a thing to exist. Any ideas for that?
 
Re: safety question about working off an srt syste

Andrew 'Moss' Joslin illustrated a good SRT pulldown.

It would work as well as a false crotch for retrieving a choked SRT line.
 

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Re: safety question about working off an srt syste

[ QUOTE ]
Andrew 'Moss' Joslin illustrated a good SRT pulldown.

It would work as well as a false crotch for retrieving a choked SRT line.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a cool technique...thanks for posting and a really nicely drawn picture
 
Re: safety question about working off an srt syste

[ QUOTE ]
That's a cool technique...thanks for posting and a really nicely drawn picture

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Casey, I came up with that I after I found out the hard way that simply tying the pull down to the bight on a Running Bowline doesn't work too well on large diameter limbs (too much friction) or when there there is a lot of rope weight below the cinch. Other ways to do it as well, the idea is to attach your pulldown near the top of the cinched limb, when you pull it lifts the rope and the bowline drops easily to release the cinch.

In regard to Ward's comments on difficulties with a high pulldown with the rope path wiggling through many conifer limbs, it's a real problem. I hung a 200 ft. static trying to pull it down from a 190' cinched TIP. The cause was the pull down was twisted a few times around the rope. In other words, it's not recommended to attempt a high pull down unless you know for sure there's a clean path with no twisting of the climbing rope and pull down line. Best practice IMHO is down pitch a cinched TIP to where you can get a clean path when you descend out of the tree.

These are the kinds of details that come up with certain size trees and species.
-AJ
 
Re: safety question about working off an srt syste

Ward,

Your FC illustration would work of course.

In your scenario the climber is in a tree thick with branches. My concern would be that the FC would become a bolo on the free fall to the ground resulting in a jammed FC. Even if a throwline were attached to the rope to lower the rope gently the FC would still have to thread its way down the tree and clear every nubbin and branch union.

Moss's version seems to be the least likely to jam.
 
Re: safety question about working off an srt syste

I have had pretty good luck releasing friction savers in big firs, they seem to make it to the ground and not bolo around branches. It does happen. In the retrievable set up I've depicted here, there are two advantages: 1. don't need to worry about cutting the back leg of your srt system (even if you cut the haul line, you can re-attach the two without risking your life) and 2., can re-thread the haul line as you get further down the tree, avoiding dense branching to the extent that you can (with a fixed anchor at the base, you cannot re-thread your line).
I daresay that Moss's system will probably not work because your going to get too much friction and not enough angle deflection to pull the line free. Even Moss mentions that problem. Have others tried the single line anchor that I've suggested?
 
Re: safety question about working off an srt syste

I've used something similar..it works, but I keep a close eye on it for jamming.

If I ever have a concern about a FC TIP getting stuck I'll move my TIP down with me as I work down the tree. It's to risky and can lead to a re-climb if the rope or anchor system gets jammed or hung up.
 
Re: safety question about working off an srt syste

[ QUOTE ]

I daresay that Moss's system will probably not work because your going to get too much friction and not enough angle deflection to pull the line free. Even Moss mentions that problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

The setup shown solves that problem, it releases every time. It is intended for a limb as opposed to the spar, FC makes more sense for the spar.
-AJ
 
Re: safety question about working off an srt syste

[ QUOTE ]

Like the picture, Moss.

I've attached a pdf of a sketch for a retrievable single line anchor. Am I reinventing the wheel?

[/ QUOTE ]

I really think your on to something here Ward. Great addition to my tool box. I have just rigged an "SRT rope guide" that follows the principle of your post. I will post pictures after I try it. nice contribution.
 
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