Safety and liability

I am no expert at all. I am actually asking you, the treebuzz rep on this product to tell me and the rest of treebuzz how this product holds up in the field. why can't you answerf this question?!

I have asked over and over and over and over how much field testing and how durable it is.


you REFUSE to answer this question WHY!?
 
You need to understand something BB, the RFID system is Mather's not mine. INDSAFE is a huge industrial safety corp in Australia that for all I know may be in heated negotiations with morbark etc at this time.

If you want in depth info on RFID tests in the field then e-mail them or call them yourself and quit acting like it's my system and I get weekly updates on their field testing.

I do know that RFID technology is used in hundreds if not thousands of applications both indoors and out in weather 40 degrees below zero in Canada. It can read an RFID tag in milliseconds from a vehicle moving at over 65 mph. Veterinarians use a handheld detector in stock pens to read miniature RFID tags in animals in all types of weather.

Every whole tree chipper sold already has computerized solid state electronics on it capable of working in adverse weather and high vibration environments, so quit acting like this is pie in the sky rocket science when it's not even close to that.

You may think I'm full of it when I say these manufacturers have colluded together in the past to quash this particular safety development, but if you knew the source that provided this damning information to me, you'd think again I assure you. Every one of you would recognize his name, but I promised not to reveal it, and I won't even though he is no longer alive, his family is.

jomoco
 
you are touting this technology as though it is yours, and it is the be all end safety device that will save every worker out there, even the ones who break or disreagard safety laws.

you have no clue as to the durability of this technology. the closest environment to wood chipping that it is used in is grain blowers. grain blowing is nowhere near as rough an environment as the feed chute of a whole tree chipper. this system would need to take one hell of a beating in order to even be considered in our field.



the other part of your argument is flawed as well. your argument that an unconscious worker standing on the side of the chipper will be suckedd in is a pipe dream.

maybe a leader in our industries safety field will chime in. such as John Ball, Don Blair, or TMW, and let us know the actual number of people this has happened to since records of deaths have been kept, or even before that time.
 
Item #9 says it all BB, maybe you should read it like Tom did and quit being so obtuse.

What do you have against chipper operators making it home alive each workday whether they're dumb or not?

jomoco
 
there you go again trying to slander my character. I am fully in line with advancing our industry and making it a safer place to work.

why won't you answer simple questions?

you sit at your keyboard accusing anyone who disagrees or even questions your statements and RFID, of wanting men to die a griswly death! why does it have to be so extreme? I want to know the durability and reliability of this system before I jump on board. I am also very curious as to why it isn't here in the US if it has been available on chippers as a proven design for 1 years +.

#9 is a recommendation from a governing body, not a proven R&D test in actual working conditions of a new system.

please stop dodging questions. educate us with the vast knowledge that you obviously have. you wouldn't push a product this hard and get yourself this deep into a conversation over a product you know nothing about, would you!?
 
Only you I suspect would discount a NIOSH/Face recommendation BB.

My motivations on this matter are many and complex.

When I invented and patented my chipper safety gate I was motivated by my firsthand experience using them as a removal expert and recognizing their inherent danger to the operator. They basically scared the crap out of me right off the bat. I spent alot of money both on the patent and research. I had high hopes of my invention being licensed for use by a major manufacturer and sent packages out to all of them offering the standard royalty of 7 percent net on each unit sold. After many weeks each of them got back to me politely declining my offer with no explanation why.

After a year or so of repeated attempts to find out why I was being stonewalled on such a vital safety device, an extremely knowledgeable high placed executive in the tree industry had mercy on me and would explain why I was being turned down by every manufacturer if I kept his name confidential and promised not to ever reveal it, which I did.

As things stood at that time if a chipper operator was sucked into one of their chippers, the company could claim gross negligence on the operator's part and very effectively limit the company's liability in court. But if the company used my invention and an operator was eaten for whatever reason, the company's liability would go up, possibly substantially if my invention malfunctioned for any reason. It basically boiled down to a corporation's wish to maintain their limited liability status even if it cost a few dozen operator's lives to do so. The cold hard facts that corporations are governed by.

I accepted it and moved on despite it's amoral rationale. But a few years later a friend of mine that had been one of my favorite groundmen was eaten alive while feeding an 1800 alone at a company I had been general foreman of for many years, though I had quit the company a few years prior to my friends death there.

That's when real anger began to motivate me. I had purposely let my patent expire in the vain hope these manufacturers would implement my patent due to the growing numbers and frequencies of deaths using their chippers.

Each time an operator died my phone would ring a few months later, it was attornies who had tracked me down through the patent office wanting me to testify in court on behalf of their clients family. They wanted me to testify about my dealings with whatever manufacturer was involved with the case. At first I turned them all down and kept out of it due to my dislike of both attornies and suing people.

But after my friend died while chipping alone my attitude changed and I began to co-operate in cases I was convinced did not involve gross negligence on the dead operator's part. I've only participated in three such cases to date. But I have every intention of participating in every new case in which I'm convinced by the forensic evidence and witness accounts that the operator was not at fault.

Mather's patent was issued to him at almost the same time my friend died in 2001, and listed my inactive patent as a reference to his in the number one slot.

My true motivations on this matter haven't really changed very much over the intervening years, but they have hardened into a visceral disgust with manufacturers unwilling to put human safety very high on their corporate to do list.

jomoco
 
[ QUOTE ]
If a non-American builder can come up with a system what is the problem?

[/ QUOTE ]

Problem is only buy american, it's why the country is in the eco we are now.
 
[ QUOTE ]

When I invented and patented my chipper safety gate I was motivated by my firsthand experience using them as a removal expert and recognizing their inherent danger to the operator. They basically scared the crap out of me right off the bat. I spent alot of money both on the patent and research. I had high hopes of my invention being licensed for use by a major manufacturer and sent packages out to all of them offering the standard royalty of 7 percent net on each unit sold. After many weeks each of them got back to me politely declining my offer with no explanation why.



[/ QUOTE ]

What this invention do, what did it look like?
 
It was essentially an eriez tramp metal detector coil loop in a composite boxed section of the infeed hopper just in front of the hydraulic feed wheels. If any ferrous metal as small as a quarter came into the magnetic field it would stop the feed wheels until the system was reset.

The composite box material being far weaker than steel meant that the feed table had to be structurally reinforced with steel surrounding the outside of the composite box section containing the loop detector. It added considerable weight to the chipper.

In some aspects my system was superior to mather's in that it could detect cabling hardware in large logs and shut the chipper down before damage occured. But my system was far more expensive than Mather's, and heavier due to the structurally reinforced feed table.

jomoco
 
here you go again slandering me.

Why wont you answer the question Jomoco. WHY!!!!!??????

How durable and how well FIELD tested is this RFID system you are pushing so hard for?

Why would you push a system that is UNproven so hard? One has to think alterior motives are at stake here? Financial, personal promises, etc etc?
 
That's right BB, I am very curious as to why you so passionately hate the idea of increasing the safety factor for chipper operators doing their jobs?

You've sat at your computer for three days now doggedly criticizing the efforts of both Mather's and my attempts to bring an end to this unnecessary barbaric carnage that has claimed the lives of 35 treeworkers and counting.

My motives and Mather's are readily apparent to any treeworker with an iota of compassion for their fellow treeworkers. Yet you rail on like a blood crazed roman in the colosseum with your thumb pointing down lustily slavering for more bloodsport carnage BB.

Why?

jomoco
 
The number of chipper-related fatalities in the tree care profession is significantly higher than what NIOSH has reported and some have parroted here. They happen about twice a month with a majority of them being caused by workers sticking their feet into the infeed area.

The data come from sound scientific method, unlike the NIOSH report.

It is hard to have a discussion when one side doesn't report facts, only opinions that can't be proven.
 
Care to share your data source TMW?

Links?

Reports?

I've spoken with John Ball on the phone a few times, and I find it somewhat unusual that he would now take a position on this matter supportive of the current manufacturer's status quo, or that TCIA would publish it.

But then again I learned my lesson about the persuassive might of these manufacturers way back in the late 90's.

I guess that lesson still sticks in my craw refusing to be swallowed to this day.

jomoco
 
Jomoco,

I will say it one more time and then it will be a harsh call from one of my representatives. Please do NOT slander my name, especially not to try to make yourself look better!

If you can show me ONE time on these two threads where I have said I do NOT like the idea of increasing chipper safety I would shake your hand, buy you a drink, and dinner!

The reason this RFID and your system are not being bought is because there hasn't been ONE not ONE single death of an operator, unconscious or concious being fed through a chipper while feeding from the side as recommended by the manufacturer. Why do we need extra safeties in place when the current safeties work extremely well, when followed?

WHY!!!???

And why are you not answering the questions Jomoco? It is because you don't have the answer and you are a Bully. You are one of the most biased people I have ever heard speak.

I ask for facts that aren't available to any human being on earth, and you set forth in slinging mud? Why!!??
 
[ QUOTE ]


The reason this RFID and your system are not being bought is because there hasn't been ONE not ONE single death of an operator, unconscious or concious being fed through a chipper while feeding from the side as recommended by the manufacturer. Why do we need extra safeties in place when the current safeties work extremely well, when followed?

WHY!!!???



[/ QUOTE ]

Was your crystal ball bought at walmart?

Was it made in china or mexico BB?

If those extremely well working safeties are so effective, then why is the toll of dead treeworkers escalating?

Oh yeah, in your mind they are all dummies deserving of death by dismemberment.

Thanks for illustrating that very pertinent point to us again so repetitively BB

jomoco
 
Prove me wrong Jomoco.

I dont shop at Walmart, havent in over 5 years!

People are dying because our industry is growing rapidly, training is dwindling, and unexperienced operaotrs are breaking the safety rules put in place to protect them.



And in case you didnt read the other thread yet, the slanderous comments should stop, please.

I have never stated, nor will I ever state that any man trying to make a living behind a chipper should die!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Death to all those rule breakers, right BB?

jomoco

[/ QUOTE ]

I am sorry that irrefutable facts have been presented, and that you have resorted to slandering my name and slinging mud. I will stand behind my promise since you refuse to stop slandering my name.

Be well and stay safe my friend!
 

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