Revisiting Dead Ash...thoughts??

[Tony]

I hear that. I climbed a lot of dead ash that were a big risk and I made it out with no injurys/death or property damage, but that was because I needed the work and I trust myself. I would have never put anyone else in most of those trees. Now that my company is doing better and growing, I can afford to not take some of those risks. Should have never in the first place. I'd still do more than 20% on most of them, but I have enough time in them to assess the risk well. Anyway, better to be hurting for money than dead or crippled.

I hear you RBJ. I also respect your judgement as I never saw the trees and am not gunna sit here and second guess you. I just caution you as you lead others working under you to be careful with the “do as I say not as I do” as exhibited by your comments. It is a slippery leadership slope as I am sure you are well aware.

Trees and the work in them is either deemed safe to do or it is not. Often that comes down to the level of skill and experience those doing the work have or have not. That is totally different than saying I take some risks but will not let you. Leadership especially in matters of risk mitigation must come from the top down.

Not accusing you, just using the opportunity to point out for all our benefit some mistakes I have made in the past.

Tony

 

[Serf Life]

I hear you RBJ. I also respect your judgement as I never saw the trees and am not gunna sit here and second guess you. I just caution you as you lead others working under you to be careful with the “do as I say not as I do” as exhibited by your comments. It is a slippery leadership slope as I am sure you are well aware.

Trees and the work in them is either deemed safe to do or it is not. Often that comes down to the level of skill and experience those doing the work have or have not. That is totally different than saying I take some risks but will not let you. Leadership especially in matters of risk mitigation must come from the top down.

Not accusing you, just using the opportunity to point out for all our benefit some mistakes I have made in the past.

Tony

Well said sir.

 

[timmysaint]

So, I bailed on the last Ash Tree in our queue. I climbed, set up the TIP, and then documented a couple of things. Here's the state of the canopy- the peeling bark was appx 20' below the TIP on the only stem that I could use, and about 60% of the canopy had to be rigged, as well as everything, including the top, once the tree was brushed out. That 'hole' was at 5" diameter section, about four feet below my feet, when standing that the TIP. It wasn't a huge tree- probably 65' to the tips, maybe 70, with 20" DBH. I've put a couple pics of my TIP 'concerns' (let alone the rest of the tree, which was also dead).

(BTW the maple (you can see in the one pic) was to far for an alternate TIP.

I referred the work to a friend with the lift - I did outline (to the client) that, with Ash Trees, if we deem them unsafe, we will come out of the tree (at no charge). I don't like being this conservative, and I hate disappointing clients (a losing money), but with the little guys, I really have to be this way, and I've noticed my headspace has changed considerably in the last 5 years, now that I have a family (re: getting old...)

 

[ATH]

That cavity isn't as concerning as the big dead limbs...but it certainly decreases strength.

That looks like big pieces to rig. If you could bomb them down, would probably have been good.

You've gotta be confident in your tie in or the whole job is a nightmare. Sounds like you did the smart thing here!

 

[Tony]

So, I bailed on the last Ash Tree in our queue. I climbed, set up the TIP, and then documented a couple of things. Here's the state of the canopy- the peeling bark was appx 20' below the TIP on the only stem that I could use, and about 60% of the canopy had to be rigged, as well as everything, including the top, once the tree was brushed out. That 'hole' was at 5" diameter section, about four feet below my feet, when standing that the TIP. It wasn't a huge tree- probably 65' to the tips, maybe 70, with 20" DBH. I've put a couple pics of my TIP 'concerns' (let alone the rest of the tree, which was also dead).

(BTW the maple (you can see in the one pic) was to far for an alternate TIP.

I referred the work to a friend with the lift - I did outline (to the client) that, with Ash Trees, if we deem them unsafe, we will come out of the tree (at no charge). I don't like being this conservative, and I hate disappointing clients (a losing money), but with the little guys, I really have to be this way, and I've noticed my headspace has changed considerably in the last 5 years, now that I have a family (re: getting old...)


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It’s easier being conservative when you have something to conserve.

I would not feel bad. You didn’t lose money, the client just has to be willing to pay what it is worth. Good decision on your part.

Tony

 

[timmysaint]

It’s easier being conservative when you have something to conserve.

I would not feel bad. You didn’t lose money, the client just has to be willing to pay what it is worth. Good decision on your part.

Tony

Thanks Tony. Yeah, back to good ole' pruning and removals but no sketchy EAB kill. Looking forward to the work day again!

 

[ATH]

.... Looking forward to the work day again!

That is worth a LOT...remember it when you are tempted to lament the lost income from removals.

 

[Tony]

What always amazes me is the urgency to get such a tree to the ground. I can’t speak to this specific tree, but I have looked at and turned down ash removals for the simple fact the owner was not willing to pay what it would take to do the job safely. Nothing new there. However, even if some of these trees failed at the trunk flare, the damage to house and/or property would be be minimal and covered under insurance.

Let ‘em fall I say. Many times the target is not worth the risk. Getting that dead ass tree, the client let go way too long, to the ground ain’t gunna end war or cure childhood cancer.

Focus your profit efforts on your best return clients, your top 20%. Do removals for them as needed, but develop the relationships with them that will feed your family for the long term and get dad home, tired, but satisfied and alive.

Tony

 

[BooRad]

Yes to above. Most times not our fault that customers waited on these dead ash trees far too long. We all trying to make a bundle in this business, but know when to walk.

Just about ready for my compact lift purchase, think I'm going with PA guys (Tracked lift). Really like the Canadian guys though but PA guys just a 3 hr drive. Stuff breaks, seems an easier route for repair/maintenance.

Did a nasty dead oak earlier this year. Far back woods area, customer didn't see. My top 10 guy for the last 20 years so I had to get it down. Tied in to adjacent oak, but too far away to be comfortable. Would have been a walk away if I didn't know the homeowner and he was such a great guy. (Paid soild however on this one, that's the lure that gets us).

 

[Jehinten]

Did a nasty dead oak earlier this year. Far back woods area, customer didn't see.

That dead of a tree in a wooded area is a perfect time to set rigging ropes and break the tree out in pieces. Less damage to neighboring trees than the whole thing laying over. If you get to the point where you can't break anymore off, then it's either safe to climb or fell. A rope doubled over your target limb and tied to a mini and an anchor point helps create (roughly) double the force to break more out.

 

[BooRad]

That dead of a tree in a wooded area is a perfect time to set rigging ropes and break the tree out in pieces. Less damage to neighboring trees than the whole thing laying over. If you get to the point where you can't break anymore off, then it's either safe to climb or fell. A rope doubled over your target limb and tied to a mini and an anchor point helps create (roughly) double the force to break more out.

Hell ya, I did shoot a few rigging lines and pull what would break out of the top. Just had to get to a main crotch and blow out some long sections. Did not try the double over method though, just a pull with mini on single. Will try that next time - thanks!