Residential Service Drops

I agree with Unatool. Get the power company to drop the line for free and you don't have to worry about it. Some power companies are much better than others though. I deal with four different companies regularly, and some can do it same day, others have a week or two period and then you have a window of four hours to wait. Which is a bid killer for sure if you don't account for it. You have to have someone there or they won't drop the line.

On a side note, does anyone know the amprage of the cable or telephone lines.
 
Alabama Power is pretty good about dropping services, but can be very unpredictable as to their arrival. That's why I have dropped a few myself. Only had to put two back up myself. I usually leave that to them.

I've never encountered enough voltage to feel when disconnecting cable or phone services, and I've disconnected them at the house and occassionally climbed the pole and unhooked them from the main line.
 
cable and phone lines are perfectly safe to work around and handle, unless they aren't. A line break upstream that falls across communication wires can energize any conductor. It doesn't have to be within visual range to affect you. EVERY CONDUCTOR SHOULD BE TREATED AS A DEADLY, ENERGIZED WIRE.

For the OP, the above facts do not faze many small businessmen (and probably a few large ones), and your situation is not unique. But if you get the ANSI standards you can show your boss that this is the law. Whether he supports you or shows you the door is anyone's guess, but you'll be better off either way.

EDIT: forgot to add, yes, OP, a branch that contacts an energized wire becomes energized, especially a live (water-filled) one. As does a pole saw and even rope if it is wet or dirty. You really should get yourself the standards and maybe some intro climbing books (like "Tree Climbers' Guide" by Sharon Lilly).
 
I was under the impression that each individual company was responsible for certifying their own climbers in line clearance so that was were a lot of the grey area comes from. A company can say a guy is line clearance certified but if someone gets hurt and an ivestigation is done they must have documentation of the training that was done. A person that is line clearance certfied by Asplundh will not actually be certified if they go to work for another company because that company does not have documentation for that individual. Also the Asplundh person who said you had to be a journeyman trimmer was wrong as well, you can be a trainee under the supervision of someone who is line clearance certified.
Like I said, lots of grey area.
And yes, avoid contact on all lines, a trimmer in my area was killed a couple summers ago by a service drop!
 
nice avatar pic... kibbles and bits!

Asplundh foreman did not impress me with his attitude. I asked him never to enter my job site again with his bigger than me crap. Go back to the union hall and make a dentist appt., check his 401k.
 
Phone lines have two voltage levels. When the phone is hung up the voltage is 48 volts DC. When a ring signal is present the voltage is 90 volts AC. Cable voltage is very low.

Some simple things to keep in mind to understand how electricity works. Voltage is the pushing force that determines how much current will flow. Resistance ( a light bulb, heating element, etc..) is the opposing force that limits current flow. The higher the resistance the less current will flow. If we create a short circuit by coming in contact with the conductor then we are that resistance. Generally speaking, the wetter we are the lower our resistance is.

EHAP teaches you to "treat" the lines as uninsulated. Normally service conductors are insulated but take a beating. When you get into primary conductors some of them are insulated but depends on how high the voltage is. Transmission lines are not.
 
I have been a certified Residential Electrician for close to 10 years...In my opinion your boss is not looking out for your safety...Yes you can hold on 2 both hot's and the neutral at once...But many times when after years of weather beating down on them those hot's can develop cracks in them...
 
I've been trolling tree buzz for quite a while now, but this is my first post, so please be nice :)

I climbed my first tree with a line clearance company and I clocked my years required for ISA certification (both arborist and utility specialist) with that same company. I'm pretty passionate when it comes to the e-hazard. I've seen some very serious close calls, but thankfully no one I personally know has ever been the guy who didn't go home at the end of the day.

Working around energized conductors is something that we'll all have to do at one point or another because of the nature of our work. A full 25% of the bids I get are big trees in proximity of service drops/distribution lines...and I don't even get to work full time for myself yet (though unless I run in to any unforeseen financial hurdles between now and then, hopefully I'll be able to go out on my own in March/April).

The bottom line is this: when in proximity of any conductor, that conductor should be treated as if it has enough juice to be fatal even with indirect contact (contacting a limb or other object that is in contact with the conductor). This rule applies to transmission/distribution lines, service drops, even communication wires. When doing storm work, when the grid is compromised, you can and should even apply this rule to metal objects underneath the conductor (such as a chain link fence running down an ally underneath the line....you never know if there is a downed line on that fence a few houses down rendering the whole thing a death trap).

Now am I seriously suggesting that people who have never had the kind of training and experience that I have never work on a tree that has a com wire brushing against it? No, that is unreasonable (though if you wanna toss all that business to me, I AM available for subcontracting ;) ). What I do suggest is that you take time to educate yourselves about the hazards involved, which I am thrilled to see that most of you have. Also, you may consider purchasing specialized equipment to make the job safer. The single best purchase you can make is insulated fiberglass poles with the suitable attachments. And keep 'em CLEAN and DRY. They won't do you any good if they are dirty or wet. I keep poles around to do jobs involving electrical hazards in 4" PVC pipe with caps on either end, like linemen use to house their hot sticks. If you need to nibble away at limbs and twigs contacting that service drop, use insulated equipment, EVERY TIME. I'm not a huge fan of the gloves because one pin hole will render them unusable....and who carries around the pump used to pressure test them before every use?

Also, getting the service line dropped or the tree cut back away from the conductor by power company contractors is a good idea. Depending on your area, it may not even be a pain in the butt. I've seen linemen show up to disconnect a service drop in less than an hour from the time the call was put in. Regarding trees that are in proximity of minimum separation to distribution/transmission lines, the PUC REQUIRES the electrical company to cut the tree back away from the line before you work on it. OR if you have suitable, documented training working within minimum separation, you can ask them for written permission to work within proximity of their lines. Those are the only two options we are given if we want to follow the applicable laws. When you call the electrical company, explain who you are and why you are calling, then ask to speak with the Distribution Forester. That is the guy you need to talk to, and the person operating the switch board may very well not know that (that tip should save you a crap load of time).

You guys/gals on here have taught me a LOT (I mean a WHOLE LOT) over the last couple of years. Thank you, and please take care of yourselves so that I can continue to learn more of your superior knowledge and benefit from your superior experience.
 
Great post JTree. Thanks for sharing your experience and training. Welcome to the buzz, also.

Hey Tom D, have you still got some thoughts to share per your earlier post on this thread?

Cheers everybody.
 
Thanks JTree and welcome! Excellent info and thanks for some clarification. As you know from lurking around here, most of us are passonate about trees and safety. Good luck with your future venture and stay safe!
 
Thank y'all for the warm welcome. After seeing some of the flame wars on here, I've been pretty intimidated! One more quick post on the subject, please bare with me:

Yes, there is a very large grey area when it comes to "line clearance certified." It is indeed true that the company itself has to provide the training.....and really, that training doesn't amount to a whole lot. Basically, it identifies the hazards, some buzz terms (pun not intended), and then, most of the time, gives a short little written test that they file so that they can prove that the worker has been "trained." It's not enough if you ask me, but then, I'm no law maker......

The 10' rule is correct for low voltage conductors such as service drops. I'm not sure either about the actual voltage requirements on the 10' minimum separation distance either, but I can find you guys a table if you'd like. The distance indeed goes up as the voltage goes up, with good reason. Distribution lines can carry enough juice at nominal voltage to arc (travel through the air to say, a limb being dropped, through the trimmer, and then through the tree to the ground) up to +/- 2', but the requirements for people who have not undergone training is something like 15' (to the best of my off the top of my head knowledge. Again, ask me for a table if you are interested). With transmission lines, the arc potential can be HUGE. The last year I worked line clearance, a guy in New England was cutting a limb in proximity of a 345KV line. As he finished his cut and the limb hinged, it broke the TWENTY THREE FEET minimum separation distance designated for "line clearance qualified" professionals. His ground hand, who worked with the man for five years witnessed the electrical arc....the climber sadly didn't make it. I know he had a family, but I don't know if they were able to give him an open casket funeral.

And one more quick note on the equipment: if you can afford it (and lets face it, when it comes to going home alive, who can't afford a couple extra bucks), buy the foam filled insulated poles. In humid weather, water can condensate inside the hollow fiberglass poles creating a hazard that you can not readily see. Also, if you plan to use a pruner head with your poles, buy a pruner rope insulator as well, other wise you might as well just hold on to one end of the pruner rope and toss the other end over the conductor bypassing the insulated poles all together....and who here has a clean and dry rope on their pruner head?
 
JTree, it is my understanding, after directly speaking with an EHAP instructor AND a utility regional supervisor (together), that a company must CERTIFY that the worker has been trained. In other words, if an employee moves from one company to another, the new company can obtain the training records, and in this way, certify that the employee has been trained.

-Tom
 
Earlier this year I was in a tree doing a removal. About 60 feet away my good friend and part time employer was doing another removal over the house drop. He dropped a cherry stick about 3 feet long and the diameter of your finger onto the house drop and it lit up like the fouth of July under his feet. I thought he was cooking for sure when that happend. What happened is the weather coating/electrical tape where the wires connect that the linemen put on had either been chewed by squirrels or otherwise been removed and the ground/support cable was contacting the hot side. If he had touched it when he was making two previous handsaw cuts right next to the line I hate to think what might have happened.

Since that incident I demand that house drops be dropped before I work around them especially for removals. It just isn't worth the risk messing around with those things.
 
Tom- Yup the company a trimmer works for must have written documentation that they have been trained/certified (hence the written test and the filing of the results). It's nice to know that your training/certification can be transferred from one company to another. I didn't know that as I never had to cross that bridge.

Ryan- Scary stuff there brother. Glad everyone was ok.
 
Re: Res. Svc. Drops:Hunter S. Thompson

EHAP is an employer controlled/certified training. There are OSHA guidelines for work that must be followed of course. A company owner can do more, but not less, than what OSHA requires.

The EHAP certification is tied to a worker's paycheck. Once they quit working for one employer they need to become recertified with a new employer. The only way around this is to be self employed.

Being self-employed doesn't exempt a climber from following the laws of physics.

A non-EHAP certified employee must maintain 10' distance from ANY electrically charge line. Communication lines can carry 120 volts. Even though the amperage is low 120 would get anyone's attention. If you don't understand what this means let your hound dog lick or put their wet nose on a 9 volt battery. Will they trust you next time you offer them your hand?! NOPE!

Once an employee is certified they must follow the Minimum Approach Distance table found in the Z or available from multiple sources on the 'net.

'Avoid contact' means that the climber, their tools/equipment or the tree that they are working in can come within one micron of contact...but...avoid contact.

The easiest way to understand MAD is to think of a tube with a wire running down the center. The 'tube' is the MAD and varies depending on voltage and training.

My understanding of electricity started in Mr. Barton's physics class in high school. It continued when I started climbing during my time working for Marv. He was a Bell System lineman full time and a crappy tree trimmer part time.

Hunter S. Thompson was the one who really gave me a full understanding of what electricity really is. In HST's book 'Songs of the Doomed' he writes about what he learned in the Air Force.

Hunter S. Thompson: On Electricity, hillbillies and wharf rats

Have a read, it starts on page 14
 
Re: Res. Svc. Drops:Hunter S. Thompson

[ QUOTE ]
The EHAP certification is tied to a worker's paycheck. Once they quit working for one employer they need to become recertified with a new employer. The only way around this is to be self employed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tom, I have to dispute this. Please read my previous post. Can you elaborate with actual ANSI or OSHA info? Thanks,

-Tom
 
Re: Res. Svc. Drops:Hunter S. Thompson

TTT,

We're saying the same thing with different words.

EHAP is employer certification. If someone is certified and the new employer accepts their word or proof of training that might be all that is needed.

I don't have any of my EHAP paperwork with me so I can't site chapter and verse. After teaching many dozens of EHAP courses and having Peter Gerstenberger as my 'Go-To-Guy' for clarification I know that what I'm saying is right. what you're saying is right too, just in a different way.
 
Re: Res. Svc. Drops:Hunter S. Thompson

I think if valid proof of training is transferred between employers then the employee can still be considered 'trained,' and therefore 'certified.' I think that the whole 'training ends with employment' myth is a defense mechanism created due to the incredibly high turnover rate in that facet of our industry. I do believe that if current training can be documented, then EHAP certification can carry over from one employer to another. In fact, now that I think about it, this was the consensus after a discussion on the CTSP FB page as well.

-Tom
 
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