ready to buy the vermeer ctx-100 this year. which grapple, vermeer or BMG?

[climbhightree]

Best think about vermeer's grapple is you can grab a standing tree, and you can securely lock (pin) the grapple pivot not matter how the log is.

Bad things about the vermeer grapple is no 360 spin, and your side arms are half way up to grab a log that is laying on the ground. This limits the height you can lift the log while keeping it parallel to the ground...and for smaller minis it effects more because the tilt Hydraulic ram is weaker then the 2 side arm rams.

Best things about the bmg is: free floating and 360 degree spin till the hoses get twisted up, the ability to lock the grapple load either straight out or perpendicular without getting off the mini, reaching over things, ACCESSORIES (bollard, rake, scoops, etc).

Bad things about the bmg: almost impossible to grab standing logs (and if you can you can't hold it that way), maybe a little weaker (but never bent mine with my 650tx), takes more skill to operate smoothly (but once you can it is extremely smooth, efficient, and versatile).

 

[erwin]

Gr

Best think about vermeer's grapple is you can grab a standing tree, and you can securely lock (pin) the grapple pivot not matter how the log is.

Bad things about the vermeer grapple is no 360 spin, and your side arms are half way up to grab a log that is laying on the ground. This limits the height you can lift the log while keeping it parallel to the ground...and for smaller minis it effects more because the tilt Hydraulic ram is weaker then the 2 side arm rams.

Best things about the bmg is: free floating and 360 degree spin till the hoses get twisted up, the ability to lock the grapple load either straight out or perpendicular without getting off the mini, reaching over things, ACCESSORIES (bollard, rake, scoops, etc).

Bad things about the bmg: almost impossible to grab standing logs (and if you can you can't hold it that way), maybe a little weaker (but never bent mine with my 650tx), takes more skill to operate smoothly (but once you can it is extremely smooth, efficient, and versatile).

great comments! objective!

I gave both about an hour of play time and this is my thought:

1. with the log at the same height from ground (6" while traveling), booms of the skid are about parallel to ground with BMG. significantly higher with Vermeer. lower means better vision.
2. Vermeer is much better looking in terms of symmetry, engineering and build details. If I go with my slight OCD nature, the choice will be easy.
3. Vermeer can grab 46" diameter log, BMG 6" more. important? it's up to you. I might run into one or two stumps a year bigger than 46. so it's not a deal breaker.
4. with Vermeer, you feel everything can be controlled with precision, with locking pin and solid design (BMG is floppy by design. load can be somewhat stablized by held against the dogs). good or bad? up to you. I personally like precision.
5. BMG has those aggressive dogs in front and on bottom of the heal plate, great feature. If I chose vermeer, I can easily weld a few teeth on their's so, it's not a deal breaker either.
6. BMG has alll those extra futures: hitch receiver, saw scabbard, rope brake. The saw scabbard looks like a joke, makeshift like and I doubt it's any useful. Non of those are important to me. I rather have a dedicated hitch plate (~$90 shipped and it only weighs 32 pounds). as to the rope brake, it's nice to have and looks good since it's like a porter wrap. I don't need it for the same reason Mitch Hoy explained.

still haven't decided yet.

 

[erwin]

Best things about the bmg is: free floating and 360 degree spin till the hoses get twisted up, the ability to lock the grapple load either straight out or perpendicular without getting off the mini, reaching over things, ACCESSORIES (bollard, rake, scoops, etc).

not sure if I completely understand it. U grab a log, prefferablly off center, lift up a little while one end still on the ground, turn the machine to achieve this?

 

[tnttree]

Mitch, thx for the input. that's some good ideas. I don't think that Vermeer makes any rotating grapple.

Hmm that picture looks familiar I've done that a lot through the years...over fences, down over terraces (for logs or stump grindings)

The picture in Tci magazine was also very familiar

Ps - I know I gave you (Branch manager) permission to use some of my pictures

Thanks Climb high - need to make a fines video for sure

 

[tnttree]

So the BMG comes with the hitch adapter, saw scabbards, chain grab, and bollards. All for about 3k give or take tax.
Personally I dislike the saw scabbards and I’m considering removing them and bolting on a plate for a winch in their place. I haven’t seen the grease zirt issue, so I assume because Southsound is old it’s a older style that has been addressed.
I won’t lie that I’m not gentle but also not abusive either. The quality of build is certainly great, however the steel used seems very soft. Dints easy, and I’ve had to take a grinder out to it to remove some serious gouges and burrs. Most of this is from just the grapple banging around or gripping the heal plate. If I were to build one from scratch there are certainly some things I’d change, but overall one would seriously think I’m ripping off the design because that is exactly where I’d start. I have about 40hours on it.
FWIW I have no intention of getting into the grapple industry. I’d much rather have a hydro winch integrated into the unit than a hydro rotate

Evo
Thanks, for not getting into the grapple Biz. I have 2 companys now that must have bought by grapple clandestinely and copied to a tee - almost -( I am flattered NOT, one guy is an ass)

BMG upgrades
steel thickness from 1/4" to 3/8" on the body added 12lbs, bolt stops, and better grease zerk protection.
coming little biter teeth on both large and small arms, & new grapple "dozer" option
couple of Winch bracket Ideas for you - the botton pic pins on around the Bollards
yep you will have to take the scabbys off
Don' grab steel

I caught my guys grabbing the trailer hitch with the grapple, scaring the tongue and grapple
f ing up the wires - I was pissed - actually a good customer gave me the receiver Idea

 

[tnttree]

I gave both about an hour of play time and this is my thought:

1. with the log at the same height from ground (6" while traveling), booms of the skid are about parallel to ground with BMG. significantly higher with Vermeer. lower means better vision.

Because of the high neck, the Boom arms are lower with BMG - more stability

2. Vermeer is much better looking in terms of symmetry, engineering and build details. If I go with my slight OCD nature, the choice will be easy.

yellow is it red - Ahh man mines powder coated, the universal joint is crucial for chipping you should get it real quick when you chip brush with both for a while. you can't reach out into the feed table for shite with the VG mounting configuration

3. Vermeer can grab 46" diameter log, BMG 6" more. important? it's up to you. I might run into one or two stumps a year bigger than 46. so it's not a deal breaker.

its not just logs - its gathering a big brush pile - gathering spread out small diameter logs
larger opening is always better - BMG 56" - 10" more

4. with Vermeer, you feel everything can be controlled with precision, with locking pin and solid design (BMG is floppy by design. load can be somewhat stablized by held against the dogs). good or bad? up to you. I personally like precision.

again yellow - red - green - when you pinocchio a 18 footer you will shear your pin- unless you operate it like a snowflake - which you will have too to not shear the pin or bend the arms.

5. BMG has those aggressive dogs in front and on bottom of the heal plate, great feature. If I chose vermeer, I can easily weld a few teeth on their's so, it's not a deal breaker either.

yeah you right it needs better dogs - weld em on then find a place to weld a bollard on, and a receiver hitch, All standard with the BMG , no extra charge

6. BMG has alll those extra futures: hitch receiver, saw scabbard, rope brake. The saw scabbard looks like a joke, makeshift like and I doubt it's any useful. Non of those are important to me..

Ow that hurt, The scabbies are HTC plastic- take em off if you want save about 2lbs - one of my imposters made them out of steel (dumbshit)
when I ran a bucket grapple you could throw the saws in their along with riggin and ropes - not possible with a bypass, wait till your runnin your machine with your saw on your shoulder or between your legs. Had a tree guy say to me" man I'm gonna wreck my saw when I'm draggin brush and logs " Don't put your saws in there when using the grapple! sheesh bonehead duh -- occasionally you will want to carry a saw somewhere while runnin your mini, try it sometime, the scabs will come in real handy

I rather have a dedicated hitch plate (~$90 shipped and it only weighs 32 pounds).

yep take your grapple off and disconnect your hoses, PIA -- your guys are just gonna grab your trailer tongue and f- it up when your not looking

as to the rope brake, it's nice to have and looks good since it's like a porter wrap. I don't need it for the same reason Mitch Hoy explained.

you betcha its handy, liftin, lowering, riggin, pullin, draggin - before the bollards were on, my crew came in with tufflex choked on the BMG with a porty slam bangin around at least they used the porty, sometimes my guys would macrame all kinds of creative knots around s__ on the grap or machine f'n up and cuttin ropes - sheesh boneheads, - I figured there had to be a simple way to add a bollard couple of fails later, ended up with what you see

still haven't decided yet.

Ha! You are a hard sell tree brother, and an obvious Vermeer fan, hows this ? buy it direct from me - free shipping - 60 day free trial - you no like - no problemo I buy back full price and pay shipping - any condition no questions asked. or full credit towards my power rotating one
found old picture of my buddy Randys holsters & 1 of a kind old counterweight seat Idea, I thought it was going to be a hit - till the gov't said you'd have to have a seatbelt and rops (derail)
Anyway my Power rotating BMGR is $4500 - receiver included (no scabbies!) - clams and rake options

 

[climbhightree]

not sure if I completely understand it. U grab a log, prefferablly off center, lift up a little while one end still on the ground, turn the machine to achieve this?

If you want to have the log going straight out from you, drive the mini body up against the butt of the log before grabbing it. The tilt the hitch plate till the log is locked in the dogs.

To carry a heavier log, grab it in the center (weight) with the log going perpendicular to the mini. Tilt the grapple all the way up, before lifting the mini arms.

I don't have a great video of this all. This is probably one of the better ones.

 

[erwin]

Ha! You are a hard sell tree brother, and an obvious Vermeer fan, hows this ? buy it direct from me - free shipping - 60 day free trial - you no like - no problemo I buy back full price and pay shipping - any condition no questions asked. or full credit towards my power rotating one
found old picture of my buddy Randys holsters & 1 of a kind old counterweight seat Idea, I thought it was going to be a hit - till the gov't said you'd have to have a seatbelt and rops (derail)
Anyway my Power rotating BMGR is $4500 - receiver included (no scabbies!) - clams and rake options

I'm not a Vermeer fan. I just happened to buy their two pieces of equipment that are top of the line in the industry, the SC60TX track stump grinder and the new CTX100 mini. I'll never buy a larger chipper from them, mine is Bandit 250. A few years ago, they're the 2nd class manufacture. The two pieces I just mentioned put them among the best now.

What's the exact weight of your rotating grapple? Does it come with all the upgrade u just mentioned, thicker plate, etc?

 

[erwin]

That's actually really good. It shows how the operator can manipulate a long log in the grapple without any power assist (like rotator), pure skill. Another good thing I see in this video is that u can lower the log to the bottom of the trailer an release it instead of dripping it 3 feet high. Don't think u can do it with the Vermeer one.

 

[climbhightree]

That's actually really good. It shows how the operator can manipulate a long log in the grapple without any power assist (like rotator), pure skill. Another good thing I see in this video is that u can lower the log to the bottom of the trailer an release it instead of dripping it 3 feet high. Don't think u can do it with the Vermeer one.

This one shows using the bollard for lowering and feeding a chipper

 

[tnttree]

Bryan,
you make me look like an amateur, I'm washed up
Hell I need to hire you to make a finesse video

Erwin - your right you cannot finesse a vermeer like a BMG
240 lbs BMG and the BMGR 310 lbs, yes all current upgrades

 

[evo]

I don’t want to sound harsh, and I’m very happy with my non rotating BMG. But just to be blunt if vemeer and the BMG got it on and had a baby that would be the best of the best. Personally I’d love a soild locking pin on occasion but what I’d love more if I could snag a piece reliably that is vertical or near vertical. For me that was the hardest call to make. It’s not often but when I really want it it’s a non option.

 

[Gorman]

If you want to have the log going straight out from you, drive the mini body up against the butt of the log before grabbing it. The tilt the hitch plate till the log is locked in the dogs.

To carry a heavier log, grab it in the center (weight) with the log going perpendicular to the mini. Tilt the grapple all the way up, before lifting the mini arms.

I don't have a great video of this all. This is probably one of the better ones.

How high are your container sides?

 

[climbhightree]

How high are your container sides?

61 inches....plus the frame when sitting on the ground. I wanted to make sure I could reach over them with the grapple and a bucket. With the bucket, once the container starts getting full it is hard to dump into...my 650tx has a lower hinge height compared to the newer mini skids.

 

[southsoundtree]

(Skimmed over a bunch, and haven't run a Vermeer)



@tnttree Dave, new stuff looks sweet.

I don't know what the dozer part is.

I grab the tow slug on the shank, gaining a lot of stability.


I have a dedicated loader plate hitch receiver... Have yet to use it. My mini is 2600+ pounds, chipper, 4400+, loaded trailers 3-4000+.
I know I will want the dedicated plate when I'm really maxing the towing, and for a newer operator.
Seems like it will reduce Jack knife-ability, as the tow-ball or pintle-hook will be closer to the loader plate, to the added benefit of greater lift capacity, and tighter steering of the trailer. Not sure.






I don't have a good picture.
After this failed Doug-fir was "walked down" I grabbed the steeply angled trunk with a bit of finesse. Not vertical. Picked it upward to get the butt of the ground, and tracked backward.



To grapple a near-vertical log...
With grapple open, get very close to the near-vertical log,
high idle,
Quickly double-track straight back a couple inches,
Immediately track forward so as to swing your grapple forward,
grab the log.
Go to it.
Not magic.
Like many things in life, it pays to have good timing.











I look at the free-floating nature of things as overload protection, as well as auto-adjust. Rigidity transfers loads overly-effectively.


I wonder how quickly you can drop a load down safely with the rigid deal.
Can a free-swiveling device be pushed farther?


I deal with fully maxed loads routinely, fwiw. I cut down until I can carry it. Yesterday, I was cutting up 6'dbh maple trunk. I haven't added counterweights, have added a guy though. I use my leg like a kangaroo tail for stability.












@evo, the grapple shouldn't grab the loader arms, only the heel plate... One sweet spot to grab, naturally, grabbed with finesse with controls. Uncurling with loader arms grabbed is operator error. Ask me how I know.

I call it "travelling position", fully uncurled, with grapples closed... Almost impossible to bang the grapple into the boom or heel plate while charging back for another load.




I think I'd like a saw mount on the mini, near the operator.


I wonder if that pushing plate prevent rolling big, big logs with the "top" part of the boom.






I couldn't sacrifice height, weight, and don't want to mess with secondary rotator hoses or controls with a power rotator.

I feed my Chuck-n-duck as much as possible by machine.

Ymmv.

 

[tnttree]

Thanks Sean,
I blew my horn long enough,
Evo you have them both,
best to ya, figuring out

 

[Jehinten]

Personally I’d love a soild locking pin on occasion but what I’d love more if I could snag a piece reliably that is vertical or near vertical

To grab near vertical logs with the bmg I tilt the grapple out and set it on the log, then backup while lowering the arms. The grapple will pivot so that you can grab the log. Once grabbed you can tilt back up and lower the arms to get in a stronger position to lift.

 

[erwin]

Thanks all for the wonderful discussion! If it were not for u guys I'd easily made a wrong move and never know what I'm missing. Called Dave today and ordered the BMG grapple along with his 48", 27 cu ft (a full yard!) mulch bucket. happily ever after. Erwin

 

[tnttree]

Thanks for your business Erwin,
call anytime - any reason - I'm here for my tree Brothers

 

[erwin]

Got the new manual BMG grapple and that HUGE mulch bucket, 1 yard. Already used it, of course I liked it a lot. There is just nothing like it. Guess the hitch thing is kind of nice. Just couldn’t figure out why Dave used a round instead of square tube for the hitch. There must be a reason I guess.