Question for those of you who hire contract climbers or who do contract climbing

When I first started contract climbing here in NY about 10 years ago, I had my own business, tools, liability insurance, but no comp. Comp is not required if you are sole proprietor. However, I ran into some issues.

The comp insurance holder of the mid size company that was hiring me, demanded that I either be covered by them or get comp for myself. If not, they would drop the main contractor's policy all together, putting them in a situation where they needed comp on the climber in order to proceed.

On the other hand, I also worked for another small company consisting of two guys that were business partners, with no employees. No issues there. Mostly because they also didn't have comp on themselves, so no one there to regulate or pry into earnings every week/month. But all work was done on the books.

Easiest route is to get comp. Just more paperwork and money to dish out : /
 
Do you mind hiring them. There is no minimum hours provided.

Check with your unemployment insurance about potential benefits and charges.

Hiring someone one day a week or month is a "regular" employee, to my thinking.
 
southsoundtree said:
Do you mind hiring them. There is no minimum hours provided.

Check with your unemployment insurance about potential benefits and charges.

Hiring someone one day a week or month is a "regular" employee, to my thinking.
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Basically that's the route I'm considering and essentially what my insurance suggested..."hiring" them and paying them hourly, use them when needed, etc. I already have an employee like that who is part-time and only works when I need him too. No fixed hours.

A little off topic question, what is the average hourly rate for an experienced climber for those of you who work for companies or who have climbers employed? Obviously I know it differs depending on area and company.

Would you say somewhere betweeen $20-$40 per hour?
 
Do you ever worry about hiring someone on an as needed basis (contract climber) but worry about them talking about your business to other companies they're climbing for? Is that something to be concerned about?
 
climbingmonkey24 said:
Do you ever worry about hiring someone on an as needed basis (contract climber) but worry about them talking about your business to other companies they're climbing for? Is that something to be concerned about?
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I don’t worry about it. I know they will talk some, they tell us about the other companies they work for as well. A good, reputable climber won’t bash you to your competition, and won’t bash your competition to you. What does it matter what your contractor tells your competitor anyway? As a contractor, they will not know anything proprietary about your company anyway.
 
My "tree service" insurance covers for 2mil in loss, for me and any one worker.
If you and this CC don't want to have to deal with WC, just modify your insurance to allow him to be covered. Or, if he has an independent business entity, and his own insurance, he will qualify as being a CC, by definition:
"3. is done by someone who has their own, independent business or trade doing that kind of work."
Though all (1-3) definitions are probably required.

And, yes, if he's working frequent enough with your tree entity, he may suspiciously become an employee, in the states eye$.

But, hey, if you and him, each have your own catastrophic medical insurance, then injuries, for the important part, are covered.
 
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I hire in so called contract climbers on a weekly basis in MA. If you tell your WC provider what you are doing, they are going to charge you WC for every dollar you pay to a contract climber. That is what I do. If you're paying them 500 a day, it's probably costing you closer to 6 after the comp gets paid.

As for the liability, when the chickens come home to roost, you'll be completely liable if something gets broken and the "contract climber" is at fault. Unless maybe if the climber is working completely separately--alone, with none of your true employees or equipment anywhere near them. Ask your insurance guy about it and he will laugh. It is essentially fictitious, though it helps the contract climber in the event that they sell their own jobs. Also, a years policy costs about as much as a reasonable contract climber can make in a few days, so it's pretty easy for them to acquire.

Imagine while working on your job, a contract climber drops a tree on someones house. The homeowner has your insurance and is going to call them/their insurance company is going after yours, because they hired you, not your climber. Are you going to tell them, "No ma'am, my contract climber has his own insurance and it was his fault."? Not likely.... Also, imagine a contract climber's insurance company, who definitely is not going to have any contract with this homeowner, agreeing to pay damages or reimburse your insurance company for damages.... Even less likely.

The guys I hire drive their own vehicles to job sites and have them lettered. If they are driving in your truck or even worse driving one of your trucks, they are your employee.

So, in the end you should pay WC for them and you are on the hook for all the liability on your own jobs. Those are my expectations anyway.

Out of curiosity, has anyone heard of a CC's insurance company paying for damages while working on another company's job site?
 
climbingmonkey24 said:
Basically that's the route I'm considering and essentially what my insurance suggested..."hiring" them and paying them hourly, use them when needed, etc. I already have an employee like that who is part-time and only works when I need him too. No fixed hours.

A little off topic question, what is the average hourly rate for an experienced climber for those of you who work for companies or who have climbers employed? Obviously I know it differs depending on area and company.

Would you say somewhere betweeen $20-$40 per hour?
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The contract climber exists because companies don't need or want or have a full time employee in that position. Thus, they are willing to pay a higher rate for them when they need them, and nothing when they don't. You can bid it into a job. If you get the job, hire them in, costs covered and profit built in. If you don't, don't. Just like a crane.

If a climber is working full time and making 40/hr, he is probably getting benefits, has likely been there for awhile and is likely getting 40 hours a week 50 weeks a year with paid time off.

From what I am gathering, you are hoping to have this person on inconsistently. I am not sure how you would find an experienced climber who is willing to work inconsistently for 40/hr when you need them, when they could reasonably obtain a day rate of quite a bit more than that depending on the experience level and company, or a more consistent job with benefits. Especially right now, when business is booming and high level employees are in a position to do very well, as they should.
 
Last year for having an uninsured subcontractor (climber) my worker's comp charged me an extra $7,000 ( a penalty )on top of the 30% they charge for the total wages in one year. Also if the subcontractor does the same kind of work that you do, legally is considered your employee, and even if they have their own insurance you will be liable if anything happens to him or her. Well, tha is how is around here
 
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