question about shock loading a rope and blocking

it definitely was answered with alot extra. haha. that guy daniel murphy makes me laugh when he talks about his true blue ropes. this was a good thread guys thanks.
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I have watched some of his videos and they make me cringe not to bash all the work that he does, but some are pushing the limits in a major way.
 
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yeah like using a bobcat to pull a massive spar over with a tiny 1/2 true blue rope. also using a finicky "experimental" cut.

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"Don't break that line "
 
woah, what a thread, wish i'd read it at the time it was started.

There are tooooo! many variables & just because a rope stretches doesn't nesiceraly mean it absorbs a shock load better! Its got allot to do with how internally abrasive or how well lubricated the fibres are i've seen shock loaded double esterlon glaze up, not where it rubbed against the tree but where the rope rubbed it's-self.

It would be great for some1 to research & develop a rule of thumb but this would have to be based on the worst case senario (groundie not letting it run & little active rope in the system etc etc etc too amny variables to list) and on top of that it would have to be based on a set configuration/system: lowering device, main line, snatch block bollard & wheel diamiter, proportional strength of the dead eye, knots used etc etc etc

What we do is not just physics, it is an organic experiance, we may 'feel' when we've pushed it too far & know that we've accelerated the ropes CTF. That said most arborists i come accreoss (and thats a hell of allot) could definatly do with a better understanding of the physics

I did develop a rule of thumb for a training course i run last year & it was a mission & a half and it was was based on set configurations of rigging equipment.
 
Re: question about shock loading a rope and block

Dan deserves more respect than is given for his work. I'd hire him to work for me at a home. Did anyone notice there was no damage to the structure or the surroundings in the latest vid posted about him? He's doing something right. The proof is in the pudding.

Joe
 
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I agree with ya there Joe he does deserve more respect for his work. Dan may be a bit of a pudgy troll but I would love to get the chance to work with him for even just a day. He has been doing tree work for a long time and a lot could be learned from him even if he takes his equipment to the max.
I think josh has too much time on his hands so becoming the internet tree police man is right up his alley.
 
Re: question about shock loading a rope and block

Joshua's learning some good things from some good people here. I think we need to point out things like what we observe about the good others have to offer now and then. It'll allow for the ability of anyone to learn something from them even when we don't agree with some of the methods used, like those that appear hard on equipment for instance.

On Daniel's behalf, we kicked around the idea of using more dynamic ropes for rigging at the former I.S.A. forum because we were learning about how much higher loads could become at our rigging points using ropes which were stiffer. Sherrill's now sells a rope that is more elastic and ment for impact loading when blocking wood. They know the importance of using a dynamic rope when impact loading heavy wood. Tom D. warned of potential problems when using a more elastic rope when rigging. This should be a heads up that one needs to use good judgement as they incorporate a dynamic rope into their rigging repertoire. Using a dynamic rope shouldn't be disregarded.

Also, some1 at that forum, (the old I.S.A. forum and before Treebuzz existed) used a dynamometer and found that when friction was added at the crotch, loads at the rigging point were reduced as compared to using a block. This gentleman was designing a block that ran like a pulley, but when loaded did not turn at all-it acted like a natural crotch. This is something that can be researched.

Joe
 
Re: question about shock loading a rope and block

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OMG murphys done it again! LOOK AT THAT ROPE STRETCH! holy cow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSykVgC_9CM&feature=related

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ahhh, why would he make a cut like that?

as always with most of his videos, WHY?

My problem with most of Daniels videos is that he is always speaking like he is teaching. So, I'm afraid young green arborist might listen to him and get into trouble. I don't like this.
 
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i sure am not learning from his videos Xman and i'm greener then grass. ha entertainment value only.

i may be a newbie but im a smart newbie and have worked at my uncles landscaping and land development company since i was 16 so falling trees is not anything new to me. the only thing new to me is climbing and rigging. been at it for 2 years now and its only getting better. the reason i spend a lot of time on here is im asking questions and learning what i can then slowly implementing techniques that the majority of people tell me. i am also studying online and taking a horticulture class. so before you judge me for having time on my hands you better know the facts. i am verry passionate about arboricare and don't want to sit around and whine all day about how people can improve. im actually confronting people and talking to them, influencing them to make changes in both safety and tree care practices. my uncles landscaping business used to make horrible cuts on all the trees(heading everything back with topping cuts) now that i have been teaching him about tree care he is doing fine making proper cuts and is getting his CA certification soon. god bless
 
Re: question about shock loading a rope and block

Tom,

thank you for editing, honestly.

I don't remember exactly what i said here on this one, but while at work today, I thought, oh crap, I didn't get on tree buzz this morning and re-read what I wrote the night before. I was in a bit of a mood and probably picked on Daniel.

Now, I'm going to find my other posts and delete them, if they are mean spirited (likely) and inappropriate.

I'm sorry i didn't get remember to edit them first thing this morning.
 
Re: question about shock loading a rope and block

im sure mister murphy is a great hard worker but some of the stuff he does while working makes me uneasy. when i see him stretching ropes to their max with a skid steer it makes me cringe. while i was watching the vid i posted, i kinda ducked my head down a bit when i saw that red rope stretch that much.
 
Re: question about shock loading a rope and block

USE YOUR HEAD and think for yourself X... There was a very good reason. If nothing else.. even if you can't see it in the video or understand it, JUST ASSUME there is a good reason, rather than the opposite. Give me that benefit of the doubt and you might be able to glean a good insight. Otherwise your mind is so busy with a condeming conversation, you can't see what is going on objectively. That's what I call stuck in the box.

I even referred to the reason in the video... there were bushes on one side, very tight and the trunk was right up against the porch on the other side.. there was no way to approach the back cut if a standard notch was used. . SO I used a bypass back-cut in copmbination with a micro-notch, leaving only the tiniest bit of holding wood, which allowed me to use a pull-chain on the back cut, and still have room between the saw's handle and the porch, as the tip swung around. If I tried making the cut form the other side, the bush was going to be in the way. Undersatand?

I also had to grind the stump and take the chips so making the stump cut low was a big time and energy saver.


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ahhh, why would he make a cut like that?

as always with most of his videos, WHY?

My problem with most of Daniels videos is that he is always speaking like he is teaching. So, I'm afraid young green arborist might listen to him and get into trouble. I don't like this.

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Re: How to uninstall and deactivate Windows 7 from a computer?

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OMG murphys done it again! LOOK AT THAT ROPE STRETCH! holy cow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSykVgC_9CM&feature=related

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Take a close look at that rope Josh... how long do you think it is?... certainly not long enough to use for rigging... that's a throw away... I use throw aways for pull lines all the time.. used one for a vertical speed line today.. video should be coming soon on that one..
 
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