Puzzled about back ups

In my experience, the tibloc binds above just about any ascender. It has its uses but as Tom says, it eats rope. I have a Microcender as my backup for SRT when I use that technique. It seems to be the smoothest way I can be satisfied, but even it can bind up if turned the wrong way. I would like to make this little bugger with a flat side srictly for sitting above ascenders,... I would make a killing.
 
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Worked on some of the loose ends..

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That looks pretty good, but the butterfly against the cams looks like trouble waiting to happen. It looks like "Option One" has the butterfly on the back side - seems safer to me.
 
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the butterfly against the cams looks like trouble waiting to happen.

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I agree for a couple of reasons. If the knot bumps the cams it could unload them causing a slip or fall.

Also, In the current Z133 cinching rope terminations are required for all climber's support lines. A clover with a half hitch would fulfill this reguirement.
 
What is the dualcender going to do if it is bumped by the Butterfly knot? If it slips it slips into the blakes hitch , where is it going to run? Nowhere...Slip maybe fall I doubt it!

Putting the butterfly behind the dualcender is one way of eliminating this exposure to the front loaded cams. When the cams are loaded the bumping by a blake's hitch won't even budge it.

I'll set up the system with a cinching knot as recommended and get back to you later with pic's.
 
I think sohner is right--if the Blake's hitches bump the cams the Dualcender may not grab, but the hitches would hold the climber. This would be inefficient because then the climber would have to work harder to push the Blake's hitches up the line. But this would only be if the Dualcender failed.

Also, the hitch on the left is tied as a 'sui-slide' knot, not a Blake's hitch. I am left-handed and, when I tie a Blake's, I normally tie it on the left side, so this jumped right out at me.
 
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the butterfly against the cams looks like trouble waiting to happen. It looks like "Option One" has the butterfly on the back side - seems safer to me.

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What is the dualcender going to do if it is bumped by the Butterfly knot? If it slips it slips into the blakes hitch , where is it going to run? Nowhere...Slip maybe fall I doubt it!

Putting the butterfly behind the dualcender is one way of eliminating this exposure to the front loaded cams. When the cams are loaded the bumping by a blake's hitch won't even budge it.

I'll set up the system with a cinching knot as recommended and get back to you later with pic's.

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Generally, I agree. That's why I said "looks like" and "seems". After a bit more thought, I figured out the problem:
By design, the butterfly will be slack when ascending (pulling down on dualcender). The only time the butterfly will be taut is due to dualcender failure. However, the taut butterfly line will prevent the dualcender from being "re-clamped" to the line if it is in front. A rear positioning of the butterfly would not be an issue.

BTW, I like the idea of Blakes tails being double-fisherman'd together. It seems it'd take quite a bit of rope and time to construct though.
 
heres a question for you guys, i have been climbing drt off of srt lately, i use a chest ascender and a pantin and foot ascender and i have my drt tied off using a 3 wrap prusik and pulley, i put the hand ascender under the prusik and as i ascend i push the prusik up with the hand ascender, is this considered a secure backup? i dont have the hand ascender tethered to me at all i only have the chest ascender on to keep me close to the rope, but my drt line should act as my backup no?

if your confused i can get pics tomorrow
 
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You mean like this? The friction hitch is acting as the "back up."

If it helps, mr. Chisholm said this is the exact method he uses.

P.s. any one know what pulley that is? i've never seen it

p.p.s thanks for giving me a call marc, hope to see ya fri, hope it works out, i might end up working cause of storm damage.
 
You guys all are familiar with my stance on any of the floating false crotch-FFC-configurations and the various configurations of backing up DdRT systems. What I would like you to do for me is to price out all of the gear that I see in the above FFC systems. Get out a paper and pencil, write down every last piece of hardware and cord. Go to a catalog and place an order. How much do you have wrapped up in the DdRT/FFC system. Don't forget that you have two climbing ropes now and another friction hitch and biner configuration on your harness.

Right now, I'm gonna bet dollars to donuts that the Unicender with the Hattier tether system that I climb on isn't much more expensive. For comparisons sake, let's leave out the SRT line from the calculations. Anything 'downstream' from the access line gets a value.

Tomorrow I'm going to get my system out and get the prices.

The DdRT/SRT/FFC systems are soooo complicated and gear intensive. Do they real work better than a Unicender Frog Walker?
 
I use a combination of SRT and DRT, for srt i use a chest ascenders, one-hand Petzl ascenders, a pantin to ascend a single static (spectra speed line). For the drt i place my climbing line on the static (spectra speed line) creating two static lines which i place two petzl hand ascender on and than i footlock up.
As Tom said the srt is very economical and with the added hand ascender you can footlock safely.
 
your right tom, it does use A LOT of gear, and it is costly, but i already own all of the gear for other applications anyway, thats why i started to use it, heck, most people probably already own most of that gear. and please dont talk me into buying a unicender, i just got that thing out of my head and now its being pushed back in
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derrick, thanks for the pics, thats exactly what i was talking about, but with a cmi micro pulley, i cant imagine pushing up that big boy pulley.

tom, how has the uni been holding up for srt? they give it 1000 hours before a rebuild is needed, is this true to its word?
 
[hear the haunting chant deep inside your head...]

Unicender...unicender...unicender...

Ha ha!

I don't see any wear on the inserts. It is too hard for me to calculate how many hours or miles I have on the Uni.

Agreed, most of the gear is already in our kits so in a way there is no money being spent.
 
The large black pulley looks like a Hexaratchet or similar. If it is, the pulley can be set to spin 360, locked with no spin or lock in one direction but spin in either just like a ratchet wrench.
 
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The large black pulley looks like a Hexaratchet or similar. If it is, the pulley can be set to spin 360, locked with no spin or lock in one direction but spin in either just like a ratchet wrench.

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Confusing explanation (to me at least) Tom.

Let me try:

The pulley in question is a Harken Hexratchet. The little black rod you see on the side is a sliding pin which makes the pulley free wheel, or locks it into a racheting pulley. The pulley in ratchet mode spins only one way.

The inner surface of the pulley is beveled inwards so it kind of traps the rope within the deepest part of the pulley.

Look at the base of the swiveling attachment point where the clevis is. See a little screw in the body of the pulley? There is a screw in each side which when tightened, locks the swivel part of the pulley so it doesn't swivel.

It is a little hard to tell from the pix supplied by country boy but it appears that the clevis he is using is the stock clevis supplied with the Hexratchet. That is a non-locking clevis which should be either tightened with a wrench, Locktight applied to the threads, or the eye of the pin captured with wire.

While I have the deepest respect for the Harken products, a climber should be very careful about adapting products for use as Life Support climbing devices.
This pulley is a bit bulky for my use. Pushing up all that hardware just seems unnecessary to me, and tiring as well.
Here are a couple of pix.

Frans
 

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