Pin Oak Form
- Thread starter MickCPitlick
- Start date
mdvaden
Participating member
- Location
- Beaverton. Oregon
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A closeup of the forks would be needed before pruning can be specified.
The sprouts are reiterations, the tree's response to overextension. They are NOT watersprouts. Reduce them to mitigate included bark, mainly.
Mulch and companion plants would not be bad and yes if it's the tallest thing around, a little copper would help.
A closeup of the base would be good too. Nice looking tree!
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Hard to call them watersprouts when they are oak-tough.
If I saw that on an apple, I'd be calling what I'm looking at water sprouts.
Whether it's an extension, or something else, it sure seems to be a reaction.
I don't really see much sprouting like that at all from trees extending growth a little or a lot as long as it happens slow. But if the "extension" is actually an "arching" or bending, like snow or ice having bent the limbs sideways out of place, then that's exactly the reaction I'd expect.
And in some ways, I suppose someone could call it extension.
A closeup of the forks would be needed before pruning can be specified.
The sprouts are reiterations, the tree's response to overextension. They are NOT watersprouts. Reduce them to mitigate included bark, mainly.
Mulch and companion plants would not be bad and yes if it's the tallest thing around, a little copper would help.
A closeup of the base would be good too. Nice looking tree!
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Hard to call them watersprouts when they are oak-tough.
If I saw that on an apple, I'd be calling what I'm looking at water sprouts.
Whether it's an extension, or something else, it sure seems to be a reaction.
I don't really see much sprouting like that at all from trees extending growth a little or a lot as long as it happens slow. But if the "extension" is actually an "arching" or bending, like snow or ice having bent the limbs sideways out of place, then that's exactly the reaction I'd expect.
And in some ways, I suppose someone could call it extension.
Jeff_Cochran
New member
- Location
- Memphis TN
i would pay a consulting arborist in your area to come out and give an evaluation of this tree and recommend management practices to be applied to the specimen. Research and pay well the consultant should cost you at least $100 an hour. Then hire a climber with a lot of knowledge, work experience and love of trees to come and work in the tree with you while you do the work. my $0.02
Interesting approach. Sounds good. How does one find the sorts you're speaking of?
If you're east of the mississip, I'm both! driving time negotriable...
but treesaregood.com will find you someone local.
This Guy (play on words
lol) is a good one and who knows your tree might get written up in a dendro story.
Danial stick to removing trees with your bucket that advantageous epicormic growth need to be regulated before it be comes a nightmare of cross overs and starts shading out healthier endocormic branch structures
Interesting approach. Sounds good. How does one find the sorts you're speaking of?
If you're east of the mississip, I'm both! driving time negotriable...
but treesaregood.com will find you someone local.
This Guy (play on words
lol) is a good one and who knows your tree might get written up in a dendro story. Danial stick to removing trees with your bucket that advantageous epicormic growth need to be regulated before it be comes a nightmare of cross overs and starts shading out healthier endocormic branch structures
ps... looks like the tree might have been lions tailed. The sprouts are undoubtedly the trees response to some type of improper pruning. For the most part its just better to let them be. Tree needs them whether we understand why or not! No need to even think about thinning them for another 5-10 years.
Gilman said "sprouts are your friend" four or five times at the penn del conference last week.
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Is there a fricking echo in here?
Gilman said "sprouts are your friend" four or five times at the penn del conference last week.
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Is there a fricking echo in here?
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
quote] Is there a fricking echo in here?
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Apparently.. I didn't read your previous post carefully...
Actually its pretty obvious that tree was gutted... the interior growth is all sprouts.. That's clear from just two pics.
And yes Jeff, they could be thinned... BUT not yet.. they are the trees response to mutilation... the tree needs all those leaves close to the damaged areas supply carbs and allow for development of new wood. Don't be in such a hurry to cut them off just cause they don't look pretty to you. What you think of as "a mess" is saving the tree's life.
Unfortunately its very difficult for many arbs to get out of their heads and tune into a tree. It has its own intelligence and it knows what it needs a lot better then you. So ya.. prune those sprouts for structure, but give the poor tree another five years to recover from the mutilation. That's not much in tree time.
If you can't stand to look at those sprouts another minute, go very light on them... subordinate and reduce the ones that will eventually be removed etc.. Think about it though?
What is the purpose of thinning the sprouts? Does that really need to be done now?
[/ QUOTE ]
Apparently.. I didn't read your previous post carefully...
Actually its pretty obvious that tree was gutted... the interior growth is all sprouts.. That's clear from just two pics.
And yes Jeff, they could be thinned... BUT not yet.. they are the trees response to mutilation... the tree needs all those leaves close to the damaged areas supply carbs and allow for development of new wood. Don't be in such a hurry to cut them off just cause they don't look pretty to you. What you think of as "a mess" is saving the tree's life.
Unfortunately its very difficult for many arbs to get out of their heads and tune into a tree. It has its own intelligence and it knows what it needs a lot better then you. So ya.. prune those sprouts for structure, but give the poor tree another five years to recover from the mutilation. That's not much in tree time.
If you can't stand to look at those sprouts another minute, go very light on them... subordinate and reduce the ones that will eventually be removed etc.. Think about it though?
What is the purpose of thinning the sprouts? Does that really need to be done now?
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
[ QUOTE ]
Nice tree.
Guy, by "not watersprouts" do you mean that they arose from latent buds with bud traces towards the pith rather than arising de-novo from de-differentiation or callus? I'm not giving you a hard time, I'm just curious what y'all mean with these terms!
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Inquiring minds want to know.. Not to derail BUT I took the CA test yesterday, and there was a question where one answer was adventitious buds and the other was dormant (latent) buds.. I always thought they were the same thing... So what's the difference..
Nice tree.
Guy, by "not watersprouts" do you mean that they arose from latent buds with bud traces towards the pith rather than arising de-novo from de-differentiation or callus? I'm not giving you a hard time, I'm just curious what y'all mean with these terms!
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Inquiring minds want to know.. Not to derail BUT I took the CA test yesterday, and there was a question where one answer was adventitious buds and the other was dormant (latent) buds.. I always thought they were the same thing... So what's the difference..
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
Webster knows!
KTSmith
Branched out member
- Location
- Maine, New Hampshire
Guy's got the right idea here, to look it up, but here is my take:
Latent buds originate in leaf axils, the little "crotch" between the petiole and the young stem or branchlet at each node. Some of those buds germinate or "turn on" to form lateral branches. The majority of those buds don't germinate right away, but the bud primordia, immersed in the thickening bark, continue to divide and the bud is carried more-or-less on the bark surface outward. I say "more or less" , because these can be immersed in the bark and not readily seen. In dissection, especially in axial section, the "bud trace" or the very subtle yet distinct wood anatomy that links the latent bud to that first-year or primary growth is visible...at least in a microscope section. So, latent buds are located at primary nodes, dictated by the primary growth of the twig or stem from the apical meristem.
"Adventitious" in this sense simply means a plant part produced where you aren't expecting it based on the primary growth of the plant. Branch or root sprouts that arise from callus or woundwound are examples of that. Adventitious roots and shoots can arise from meristematic points and not even involve a bud as a distinct organ.
Yeah, you should still look it up.
Latent buds originate in leaf axils, the little "crotch" between the petiole and the young stem or branchlet at each node. Some of those buds germinate or "turn on" to form lateral branches. The majority of those buds don't germinate right away, but the bud primordia, immersed in the thickening bark, continue to divide and the bud is carried more-or-less on the bark surface outward. I say "more or less" , because these can be immersed in the bark and not readily seen. In dissection, especially in axial section, the "bud trace" or the very subtle yet distinct wood anatomy that links the latent bud to that first-year or primary growth is visible...at least in a microscope section. So, latent buds are located at primary nodes, dictated by the primary growth of the twig or stem from the apical meristem.
"Adventitious" in this sense simply means a plant part produced where you aren't expecting it based on the primary growth of the plant. Branch or root sprouts that arise from callus or woundwound are examples of that. Adventitious roots and shoots can arise from meristematic points and not even involve a bud as a distinct organ.
Yeah, you should still look it up.
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
thanks found this:
Bud
An embryonic shoot containing the growing stem tip surrounded by young leaves or flowers or both, and the whole frequently enclosed by special protective leaves, the bud scales.
The bud at the apex of the stem is called a terminal bud (illus. a). Any bud that develops on the side of a stem is a lateral bud. The lateral bud borne in the axil (angle between base of leaf and stem) of a leaf is the axillary bud (illus. a and d). It develops concurrently with the leaf which subtends it, but usually such buds do not unfold and grow rapidly until the next season. Because of the inhibitory influence of the apical or other buds, many axillary buds never develop actively or may not do so for many years. These are known as latent or dormant buds. Above or beside the axillary buds, some plants regularly produce additional buds called accessory, or supernumerary, buds. Accessory buds which occur above the axillary bud are called superposed buds (illus. c), and those beside it collateral buds (illus. d). Under certain conditions, such as removal of terminal and axillary buds, other buds may arise at almost any point on the stem, or even on roots or leaves. Such buds are known as adventitious buds.
Bud
An embryonic shoot containing the growing stem tip surrounded by young leaves or flowers or both, and the whole frequently enclosed by special protective leaves, the bud scales.
The bud at the apex of the stem is called a terminal bud (illus. a). Any bud that develops on the side of a stem is a lateral bud. The lateral bud borne in the axil (angle between base of leaf and stem) of a leaf is the axillary bud (illus. a and d). It develops concurrently with the leaf which subtends it, but usually such buds do not unfold and grow rapidly until the next season. Because of the inhibitory influence of the apical or other buds, many axillary buds never develop actively or may not do so for many years. These are known as latent or dormant buds. Above or beside the axillary buds, some plants regularly produce additional buds called accessory, or supernumerary, buds. Accessory buds which occur above the axillary bud are called superposed buds (illus. c), and those beside it collateral buds (illus. d). Under certain conditions, such as removal of terminal and axillary buds, other buds may arise at almost any point on the stem, or even on roots or leaves. Such buds are known as adventitious buds.
KTSmith
Branched out member
- Location
- Maine, New Hampshire
Latent buds are axillary, and of course, once they germinate, they are no longer latent or dormant. Daniel's excerpt is good in mentioning the preformed parts and scales which a bud contains.
That excerpt does not mention adventitious buds. A key point for me is that adventitious shoots can arise from callus or a meristematic point without a bud (as defined by those preformed parts and scales)ever occurring.
That excerpt does not mention adventitious buds. A key point for me is that adventitious shoots can arise from callus or a meristematic point without a bud (as defined by those preformed parts and scales)ever occurring.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
...which leads to confusion, because adventitious shoots can form from either adventitious (newly formed) or latent (dormant, suppressed, preformed) buds, or perhaps more often from tissue that never formed a bud at all; thanks Kevin!
It'd be very interesting to dissect various sprouts to show that the sprouts that have lower laterals and pronounced flares or buttresses are most often from dormant buds, and those whippy watersprouts are not.
This was proposed as a poster topic for ISA Intl but wasn't accepted. Anyone interested enough to combine on a Tree Fund-ed project? It could be a step for arboriculture to take, and address the 'sprouts are bad' myth, a carryover from vegetation management.
It'd be very interesting to dissect various sprouts to show that the sprouts that have lower laterals and pronounced flares or buttresses are most often from dormant buds, and those whippy watersprouts are not.
This was proposed as a poster topic for ISA Intl but wasn't accepted. Anyone interested enough to combine on a Tree Fund-ed project? It could be a step for arboriculture to take, and address the 'sprouts are bad' myth, a carryover from vegetation management.
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
question for the OP
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Answer is I don't know. I've lived with it for about 25 years.
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how long ago was the last pruning done..
Guy's point about needing close ups of the questionable branch unions was a good one.
[ QUOTE ]
Answer is I don't know. I've lived with it for about 25 years.
[/ QUOTE ]
how long ago was the last pruning done..
Guy's point about needing close ups of the questionable branch unions was a good one.
